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Scottish Oral History Collection

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: Interview of James Russell : Interview; 11 May 2004 Professor Jim (James) Russel (Glasgow, Scotland, 11 September, 1935). James went to Fulwell primary school in Roker, Sunderland, England, during the war. They were in England due to his father’s job as a civil servant working for the Ministry of Labour. He talks of having a duel tongue: Geordie and Scots. On coming back to Scotland, he went to the Royal Edinburgh High School and gained an interest in Classics. Although he says his whole family have been and continue to be Conservative in their political views, he considers himself to be “strongly Scottish” and talks of being influenced by a Scottish Nationalist teacher at High School, who taught Scottish history and literature (neither of which were on the syllabus at Scottish schools at the time). James therefore developed a sense of “cultural nationalism.” He left High School and went straight to Edinburgh University, where he took an Honours degree in Classics, which included Classical history and archaeology as well as Moral Philosophy. He talks about having a keen interest in “ruins and remains” from an early age. His great uncle, James Russel (b. 1820/30 d. 1890), a dyed-in-the-wool Liberal and one of the “self-improving member[s] [...] of the yeoman class of Scotland in the 19th century”, had been one of the first excavators of the Antonine Wall in Scotland. He also talks about student life at Edinburgh University, such as the reaction over the Suez Canal fiasco in 1956; this would prefigure the student demonstrations he encountered while a professor at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada. After leaving Edinburgh University, he taught Classics for a year at Trinity Academy in Edinburgh. He lived in Scotland until her was 24. He met his wife at Windsor Place, Church of Scotland, and married her on 19 August 1959, just before coming to Canada to teach and study for his Ph.D in Classics at Winnipeg. He then got a fellowship to study in Chicago for a year. He completed his Ph.D in 1965. He was invited to join the University of British Columbia as assistant professor and arrived in Vancouver on 19 August 1966. He got tenure in 1971. He talks about his experience of teaching during the “free thinking” movement that arrived at the end of the 1960s. Supposedly Deconstructionism was a nightmare for history teachers as students would start to question the veracity of dates, historical documents, catalogues, etc. He also talks about witnessing the students demonstrations against the Vietnam war, Government (in genereal), and even the structures of the University. His time at UBC was mainly spent excavating and compiling samples and information for publication of a 3rd century Roman city at Anemurium, Turkey, from 1970-1985. He retired in 1998. He was also elected President of the Vancouver branch of the Archaeological Institute of America – a post he held for 2 years. He is a member of the Fellows of Antiquities of Scotland. Upon retiring he took up a position of lecturer of Classics at the Intercollegiate Center for Classical Studies in Rome for a year. When asked about whether or not he feels a “sense of belonging” towards Scotland, he says that he does; but when he is in Scotland, he feels that both he and the place are “different”; he has a whole other dimension to his perception from living in Canada. He does say that he “keeps up an interest” in Scottish politics through the UK papers and still has an interest in Scottish history. His father, William Russel (b. 17 December 1909, Longcroft, Stirlingshire), was a civil servant. He worked in both England and Scotland. He was heavily involved with the crofters in the Scottish Highlands. He was first destined to become a Minister. He was also very proficient in languages, especially Latin. He was also commissioned into the Army, destined to serve in India, although he somehow managed to escape this duty. He was the son of James Russel (b.1870), a foundry worker from Kilsythe – a short, wiry man; shrewd, athletic, friendly, quiet, and neat and tidy. His wife, the interviewer’s grandmother, Margaret Penman, was fairly unknown to James, although he does say that she might have suffered from Alzheimer’s disease. For example, she “behaved like a child” and “talked to the chickens”. In short, she “wasn’t normal”. His mother was called Elizabeth Russel. Her father, James’ grandfather, was a grocer in Borland. He blended and sold his own whiskey and advertised it at the local cinema. He also bought and sold horses from Glasgow. He has one brother. He was born in Newcastle. He went to the same High School as his brother in Edinburgh. Like his father, he became a civil servant and retired as second in command of British Customs. He lives in North Berwick, Scotland. Keywords: Glasgow; England; Classics; UBC

: Interview of Terry Lee : Interview; November 17 (second interview; first interview missing). Terry Lee. Terry works at Tartantown. He is a Highland dancer. He played in the City of Victoria Pipe Band and was Pipe Major of Simon Fraser University Pipe Band. He says that the SFU pipe band gets a great reception when they go to Scotland; however, they still see themselves as outsiders when they come to compete in Scotland, although he says that it is starting to become more inclusive and that the nationalities of bands doesn’t seem to matter all that much now. His wife is Nancy (October 15 1957). They have two children: Fiona Jean Lee, who is a highland dancer, and Alastair Gordon Lee, who is a piper. Keywords: Highland dancing; bagpipes; SFU

: Interview of Reid Maxwell; Reid Maxwell November 6 2012; November 13 2012 Born: John Reid Thompson Maxwell. Born Jan 29 1961, raised in hospital in Concordie, family home in Bowhill, Cardenden. First grandchild, oldest of 2 sisters (one living in Fife, another in England), recently learned of a half-sister came from his father’s time in South Africa. John Reid after his grandfather, who he knew quite well and considered his best friend. Thomas Maxwell was his paternal grandmother’s first husband who died. He stayed with his paternal grandparents every weekend; they lived in Bowhill. When his parents split up, he went to live with them, and stayed until he reached high school. His grandparents lived in the old cemetery house; for a long time his address was Cemetery Lodge, 22 Main Street, Cardenden. Reid’s son Keith was born in the same hospital as him and raised in the same town until the family move to Canada. Mother: Katherine Patterson Couser. Grew up in Dundonald. Her father was a miner, and had a first wife who had passed with the name Patterson. He had become very sick with “the black lung”. Unfortunately lost both her parents at age 11 within a week of each other, and so she was raised by her oldest sister Mary. Had her first child at age 17; was a housewife until later in life, when she became a cashier at a grocery store. Separated from Reid’s father when he was around 10. She still lives in the village in Bowhill. Father: Gordon Maxwell. Born in May 29 1941 in Dunfermline, Fife. Was adopted as a child by his mother and her first husband, Thomas Maxwell, who was a coal miner and died from “black lung”. His father John Reid married his mother when he was still a schoolboy. Still living to time of interview. Grew up in Jamphleurs, northwest of Bowhill – where Bowhill Collierie was located. Became an electrical engineer, training in a Naval Dockyard. Then worked for a company called Taylor Instruments. In 1983, he began working in a nuclear facility outside of Capetown, South Africa. Paternal grandfather: John Reid. Passed Sept 1991. Avid gardener, “simple man who lived off the land”. Did farmwork, worked at a saw mill in the offseason. Worked as a plowman, and was later employed by the Bowhill Collierie as a groundskeeper, starting in the 1960’s. By the end of the 1960’s, all the mines in the area began to shut down. He was forced into early retirement because of this. He bought Reid his first drum and pair of drumsticks, and took him to his first football match. They would enjoy a dram together in John’s later years. Paternal grandmother: maiden name Mckee. Passed Sept 1999 at 99 years old. She was the one who encouraged Reid to begin drumming, and asked his cousin to bring him along to a pipe band practice one day. She raised him with great-grandmother: Jeannie Mckee (maiden name Taylor). Passed December 1977. Lived with Reid’s grandparents. Her husband, Robert Taylor, played drums. Was alive in the time of Queen Victoria. Cardenden, Scotland is a small former coal mining town. Named for Carden farm. Unemployment was always on the increase in Bowhill, as the mines shut down and jobs moved away. Reid describes it as “the blue collar of blue collar” towns. Up until quite recently, it was common to buy locally grown vegetables from around the area. Moving to Canada: Reid immigrated with his family in 1981. Reid attended Dunend Primary School in on the border of Dundonald and Bowhill. Enjoyed high school, and played football, rugby and basketball. Left school at age 16, which was common. Graduated May 1977. Laughs that he failed music in high school, but won the World Pipe Band Championship in August 1977 with Dysart & Dundonald Pipe Band. He feels the focus in school was on classical music, where he enjoyed drumming for the pipe bands. Nobody in the family spoke Gaelic. He wishes he was taught it in school, rather than French. Reid has always owned a set of drums, and could do a roll in his first lesson. He has never had the slighted inclination for bagpiping. He started on formal lessons around age 6 or 7. Matthew Hannah was the lead drum for Dysart & Dundonald, which Reid only joined because his cousin was a piper there. Reid had pneumonia as a child and stopped for about a year. His first and most influential teacher was called William Bell, from Bowhill. The key instructor of the Dysart & Dundonald Pipe Band. Would instruct in his parent’s house – he was only 6 years older than Reid. Reid would attend band twice a week. He would buy drumming LPs at Highland Games (just called competitions in Scotland) and listen to them over and over. He would buy every album from Muirheads, Shotts, etc. Reid was part of the group who started the Robert Malcolm Memorial Pipe Band. It was envisioned as a band to prepare young players for Simon Fraser University Pipe Band. Bob Shephard instilled his thoughts on this. They were amazed when over 50 kids came out to their first meeting. He also teaches drum by telephone and later Skype. This started from teaching his son drumming over the phone. Reid is lead drummer for the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band. Came to the band as an out-of-town player in 1992, invited by Terry Lee, and within 6 months made the decision to move to British Columbia. He talks about the CDs and trips the band has made, such as their trip to the World Pipe Band Championships in Glasgow. He recalls the Piobaireachd prepared for the trip. In total, he has been to the Worlds 7 times with Dysart (2 world championships, 4 drumming titles), 8 times with the 78th Fraser Highlanders, and 8 times with Simon Fraser University (6 championships, 4 drumming titles). His first was at age 14, competing in grade 1. Reid met Jim Blackley, a jazz drummer, who gave him advice which has stuck with him. He likes to include unique influences in music when he can, such as incorporating African influences into drumming. A tough choice Reid had to make was when his first wife asked him to leave the pipe band world, as it demanded so much of his time. He chose to carry forward with drumming and they ultimately divorced. He doesn’t regret the decision, as he met his current wife. Wife: Rachel Parkinson through drumming, at a class he taught with Terry Lee. She was a piper, and has her doctorate in mononuclear science. He has been able to carry on his passion for drumming. His first wife was a woman from Toronto named Susy Villalta. Parents from Italy. Met in Canada in 1977 at the Canadian National Exhibition. Kept in touch by letters, and were married after she moved to Scotland. Married when they were both 19. They planned for him to finish the year with his pipe band in 1981, then moved to Toronto. He remembers listening to the police sirens as he fell asleep on his first nights in Toronto, which never would have happened in his small town in Scotland. Reid lived there until 1992. His wife’s family served them a huge Italian feast upon arrival. He said a big mistake was assuming all of Canada was like Toronto. He prefers the climate on the West coast. He did feel that he was leaving Scotland forever, and describes himself as “a separatist”, and says he will only go back if Scotland is independent. When he does back to Scotland for competitions, he is looked upon as a Canadian. He found himself part of the Scottish community in Ontario, and never experienced any discrimination. Played with the 78th Fraser Highlanders while in Toronto. Reid, as well as others, feel that the cohesion between himself, Jack Lee and Terry Lee has been responsible for the success of the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band. He notes George Watsons College as a great example of a school that has made the Pipe Band “cool”; juvenile band, a model similar to the Robert Malcolm Memorial Band, but run during school hours. Reid’s first job in Canada was in the stockroom in a sport’s store. He doesn’t have any post-secondary education – it was not considered an option for him. He became in the communications industry, involving pagers. After two recessions in Ontario, he decided to go into business for himself as a professional drummer and instructor, in Vancouver in 1992. He tries to make drumming “cool”, and SFU has never had issues attracting drummers to the band. He is amazed by the success and the number of young people that have gone through his programs. He doesn’t have any plans on retiring soon, as he still feels capable. Reid talks about how if you are a “Fifer”, you always refer to it as “The Kingdom of Fife”. He has been a proud Canadian passport holder since 1987. His grandfather had a phrase that “a Scotsman would fight his shadow”. Reid’s grandparents came to visit him in Ontario several times, while in their seventies, staying for 10 weeks one time. His grandfather John saw the potential in Canada, and admired people who were willing to “roll up their sleeves and work”. Reid goes home to the village every year. Reid composed a paper with his wife Rachel on the history of the World Pipe Band Championships. He talks about the demanding schedule of pipe bands. He doesn’t see a bias in drumming judges based on equipment; it is style. He has never been judged by a family member, friend, or person related to the music he was performing, which he is proud to say - he feels they have all been “honourable” wins. Reid often finds himself reminding the band members of who they are performing for, and attempting to play for the masses. He feels bagpipes can be enjoyed with other sounds, and hopes that the entertainment value of pipe bands continues to increase. Children: Keith, lives in Toronto; Grant, has been playing drums since childhood. Played in the RMM Band from 1997 on, and was a member at their win at World Championships in 1999 & 2001 (grade 3). Moved into the grade 1 band. He is a very talented drummer, and played in the Solo Drumming Championships. Reid decided early on that he wouldn’t force any of his sons into drumming. Both sons have feelings of “Scottishness”; Keith was born in Scotland, and enjoys a dram with his father, and Grant connects to the heritage through music. Reid thinks that competition is a good thing for children, and music is a healthy way of learning self-discipline. The SFU Pipe Band was under consideration for a Juno at the time of this interview. Towards the end of the interview, Reid discusses the Scottish Nationalist Party and 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum. He considers himself a separatist; his mother, still living in Scotland, is against separation.

: Interview of Strachan Birnie : Interview; 30 Novemember 2004 (recording is corrupt and inaudible in parts) John MacGowan Key Strachan Burnie (Glasgow, 12 March 1937) (being the boy, he was given all the family names – a tradition in his father’s house). He has two sisters, Lindsey and *inaudible*. He went to Allan Glen’s School in Glasgow (Dirk Bogarde and Charles Rennie Mackintosh are ex-pupils). He left school when he was 16 and joined the Inland Revenue before having to complete his National Service at 18; he joined the Scots Guards. His army experience included going to Dusseldorf for a year and he remembers the city still being devastated by the war. He eventually became a corporal. After this he was posted back at Chelsea Barracks and was involved in such ceremonial activities as Trooping the Colour; he talks about how “emotional” he was to be marching behind the bagpipes on such an occasion. He was also posted as a guard at the Tower of London, although he was “relieved” from his position for “not awakening the bugler” on one occasion. He also did guard duty at Buckingham Palace. After this he went back to Glasgow and joined the continental department of Thomas Cook Travel Agents; his job involved travelling to the different destinations the company was advertising and arranging travel for customers. He did this for around 6 years before becoming a sales representative for office equipment. By this time he had met Elizabeth Anderson; they later married in 1963 in Glasgow. From here he joined the Bank of Scotland as a teller and worked his way up to head-teller. By this time he and Elizabeth had two boys. He also became the first Conservative counsellor in Kirkirnpilloch and served for a number of years. He was then hired by the Bank of Montreal in Scotland and then was then offered a position in Vancouver. He remembers his father being disappointed that he was leaving Scotland, but when he came out to visit in later years, he soon changed his mind. He therefore flew to Toronto and took the train to Vancouver. He remembers marvelling at the space of Canada as he travelled through it by train. He remembers the colours being “so different from Scotland”. He said coming into British Columbia felt “more Scottish” due to the mountainous landscape; the prairies were so flat and would stay that way for hours of travelling. He arrived in Vancouver in October 1972. When he was shown his work, he was taken aback at the number of women working there. In Scotland, he says, the only women working in the bank were making the tea.... He was one of the only men working in the bank and was also put in charge of handling the bank’s gun when taking money to other branches. He eventually became a manager of a branch in North Vancouver before retiring at 60. In retirement he went on a cooking course and learned how to play bridge.... He also started to appreciate the art of Charles Rennie Mackintosh when he came to Canada; he remembers the Charles Rennie Mackintosh Revival being in full swing when he visited Scotland. He says he had read up on Canada before coming out, so a lot of it wasn’t all that new or surprising. But he was taken aback at the size of the country. He also remembers the people he met being extremely friendly. He also came in contact with other Scots and was soon invited to give the Immortal Memory speech at a Burns night held be a Presbyterian minister just a few months after arriving. He also gave the same speech at the Chinatown Lions Club where they ate haggis with chopsticks. He also says his sense of identity flourished while in Canada. He started wearing his kilt, which had remained in a cupboard while in Scotland. He also took part in many Scottish events, such as Burns Suppers. He also says he became more aware of his “roots” and heritage while in Canada and he wanted his sons, Colin and Guy, to be aware of their background, although he also thinks that his and his son’s lives have “expanded” and their perspectives “broadened” by being in Canada. He also became more interested in Scottish literature, and this blossomed though his friendship with Alma Lee, a fellow Scottish immigrant who founded the Vancouver International Writers Festival. In fact, he introduced him to a new world of Scottish literature, and he even had authors such as Andrew Grieg, an Orkney writer, over for dinner. James’ father was George Burnie (Glasgow, 7 October, 1905). He was part of the Glasgow police force. He used to be involved in crowd-control at Celtic Park when Celtic played their local rivals, Rangers. John remembers going to Old Firm games and sitting among “the cloth” (Catholic priests) and being so surprised at the division of the fans’ seating – one half was all Celtic, the other half all Rangers. Like “oil and water”, they weren't allowed to mix. George and his wife met on one of the islands of Loch Lomond, Inchkallia. They were later married in Glasgow. His father was a piper. He learnt the pipes at the Boys Brigade, Glasgow. He was a great reader of Burns; he could recite the whole of “Tam o' Shanter”. Meanwhile, John didn't really get into Burns until he came to Canada. James’ grandfather was John Strachan (Elgin, 1879) and was born near the Kirk of Burnie, which is the oldest church is Scotland (1140?). He came to Glasgow and joined the police force. His grandmother was Margaret McGowan and probably came from the borders. James’ great-grandfather, his father’s grandfather, was called George and he was also involved in the police force in Morayshire; his wife was called Mary Hunter. There were no Gaelic speakers in his family. His father claimed he had traced the family name back to a small town near Bergan, Norway. He therefore believed that “Burnie” comes from the Vikings who came and settled around the Moray Firth area. He remembers politics and religion being quite prominent in his family. The area where he lived in Scotland was a Protestant and he went to the Presbyterian church. He remembers the Orange Marches and segregated schools. He say he didn't “meet a Catholic” until he entered the army. His wife Elizabeth’s father was Professor Tom Anderson of Glasgow University (CBE) – a very imposing man. John remembers him being very difficult to get to know in Scotland, but in Canada he was a lot more accommodating and John got to know him a lot better over a glass (or two) of whiskey. He used to go and spend time with him on the Isle of Arran, where Tom had retired, and they used to tour the island. James’ mother’s last name was Key (January 25 1908). She came from an English family, although she was born in Glasgow. He remembers his aunts being “very English”; his mother was only one who made the transition into Scottish manners. He talks of there being a few “family secrets” on his mother's side. For example, one of his uncles was “excommunicated” from the family for abandoning his wife and child and marrying a younger woman. Then his aunty Eilsa got involved with a greenkeeper from Paisley. They had a child, David. She was therefore sent back down to England and the father was never mentioned. David was later arrested in Turkey for smuggling drugs from Greece and imprisoned for 19 years. He then tried to trick remaining aunts and uncles out of their property by getting them to sign deeds over to him; ironically, his actions brought all the cousins together to try to stop him and bring him to justice. His mother’s father, John Key, married a lady called Wade, who quite possibly was related to General Wade. He had a business in the south of England and Scotland. Keywords: Glasgow; Scottish societies; religion

: Interview of Therese McErlean; April 25 2012 Therese McErlean Born: Therese MacInness, June 11th, 1949 in Vancouver. Five siblings (2 brothers & 2 sisters), Therese was the fourth. Father: Micheal MacInness. Born in Eriskay, Scotland in 1904. He was a master mariner, and when he came to Vancouver, he ran an icebreaker in the north, and was a longshoreman in the offseason. He was a quiet man, and Therese regrets that she didn’t get to know more about him or his family. He spoke Gaelic, but didn’t read or write it. He didn’t talk much, but she knew he was proud of her piping accomplishments. In Eriskay, he was a fisher and always on the water. Travelled the world as a sailor. He “jumped ship” in Vancouver around 1926-28. Therese’s paternal grandparents passed when she was born, but she was later told by family members in Scotland that her grandmother was “away with the faeries” – a term for being in an asylum. She remembers the funny stories told about when the ship Politician ran aground. Mother: Born in 1908 just outside of Glasgow. Came to Canada for a better life with her parents when she was 18. Second oldest of her siblings, 6 brothers and 2 sisters. Came to St. Brides (outside of Edmonton), in what was an Irish settlement. The family farmed. She worked in house service in Edmonton, which was her profession from age 14 on in Scotland. She was always trying to get her family to come to Edmonton from St. Brides, because their life there was “dismal”. “They were poor in Scotland, but they weren’t that poor”. The plot of land was almost “unworkable”. Her mother was a Highland dancer for years. She told many stories from her career of housekeeping. She retired once she was married. She did not speak Gaelic. Therese’s parents met in Vancouver. When she was born, they were living at 13th & Commercial. They moved to Burnaby when she was 6. They played $13 000 for the house around 1956. She attended Edmonds School from grade 1-10. It was a nice school & area, which has become impoverished in recent years. She later attended Burnaby Central. Her mom always told her she would be a teacher, and she attended SFU for general arts. She began University in 1967, when protests and riots were happening at campuses like Berkeley. SFU had a lesser version of this, with sit-ins and such. She was less interested in these politics, and lost a few friends because of it. “Every prof was a radical”. The school didn’t have a great reputation at the time, and she had many friends at UBC. She met her husband Willie when she was 21. Her father’s first ship was called the “Great Bear”, which took people on northern fishing excursions. He struggled with depression and would spend some time off work or in clinics. They always lived well despite the fact that there was no disability payments for him. He lied on his birth certificate, so he worked until he was 69. Therese’s siblings, Duncan, Donald & Rae-Marie were all enrolled in bagpiping by her mother. Donald was also in Highland dancing. By the time Therese was born, it was expected she would take up piping. She started around age 6 or 7. She has the trophy from her first novice competition, at age 9. It was at the annual gathering at the Seaforth Armouries. She remembers being amazed by the Powell River Pipe Band. Her first teacher was Malcolm Nicholson. Her sister, Rae-Marie, was a great player, and began training with Jimmy MacMillan. Therese was 15 at the time, and went along with her sister. She remembers training with Jack and Terry Lee at times. She stopped competing around age 20. In those days, in order to play in the Ladies’ Pipe Band, you had to memorize around 100 tunes – particularly to play the Burns Dinner. In 1964, Therese had to get her “badge” and memorize these tunes within a month or two. She played with Norma Nicholson, Marie McDonald and her sister Rae-Marie. They played several times in Scotland, staying in Edinburgh. The band recorded a record together. Therese played solo & in bands. She did many quartet performances around B.C., which are less common today. She is still friends with many members of the band. She was asked one time to dance in a Tattoo. She rarely played the pipes for dancers. Therese talks about playing pipes with her husband Willie on drums, who plays so fast she feels “like Ben Hur holding the horses back”. Many of her parents’ friends in Vancouver were Scottish, and spoke Gaelic. Her feelings of “Scottishness” comes from her parents. Her father didn’t have many habits and spent his days working. Her family was very Catholic and church was a large part of their lives. Politics weren’t often discussed. Therese was close with her Aunt Rae. The family’s holidays revolved around the Highland Games. Her mother was a great cook, but her father preferred plain food, like boiled cod. Therese always identified more as Scottish than Canadian and loved her trips to Scotland. Therese met her husband Willie at the Santa Rosa Highland Games. They have 3 children: Calum, Rachel & Shannon, and 4 grandchildren. Her son learned piping, but didn’t follow up as much. The girls were in Highland dance and had a lot of fun. Therese discusses the Scottish Nationalist Party, in the news at the time of the interview. She hears about the politics in Scotland through friends who visit. She says the competitive world of piping and dancing can be hard on those who expect to win all the time. Her inspiration was always to find the best piper, and try to beat them. She took some lessons from Ian MacLeod while in Scotland. Her favourite thing to do is to watch the SFU Pipe Band tune up. Willie & Therese recommend Reid Maxwell for interview.

: Interview of Donald Sinclair; August 24 2004 Donald Sinclair – Tape 1, Side B; Tape 2, Side A; other recordings missing. Recording starts abruptly, in the middle of a sentence. Mother’s siblings: Peggy (married Tim MacLean), Marjorie (married Ronald Laing) came to Vancouver, Canada with her husband. Allister, settled in Winnipeg. Ronald – was a police officer in Glasgow, was pipe major of the Glasgow Police Pipe Band. Badly wounded in WWI. He was quite short and called “wee Ronald”. Donald Ewan - Superintendent of largest insane asylum in Scotland, also wounded in WWI. John – served in WWII, became sergeant major. Had to leave the army to take care of the family farm after his father fell ill. He later became an Inverness City Counsellor. Youngest sister Marg (married a Morrison). Several first cousins in Ontario, Manitoba and B.C. Mother: Maiden name MacDonald – passed and buried in Vancouver. Went out to service in Glasgow after she left school (around age 13 or 14). There were 10 girls in her class at school with the name MacDonald. The teacher couldn’t speak any Gaelic and they couldn’t speak any English. The teacher named them “Doll 1, Doll 2, etc.” nicknames which stuck – Donald remembers meeting “Doll 10”. They tried to “put down” the Gaelic in school, encouraging students to read & write in English. His mother couldn’t write any Gaelic but spoke it fluently. She was a great baker, taught by her sister Marjorie. Grandmother: Mary Cameron. His grandmother spoke virtually no English and had never gone to school. Her brother came a Minister of Divinity in Edinburgh. She was “a tough little cookie”. Uncle Allister immigrated to Canada in 1912. Donald went to look him up while in Winnipeg at one point, calling the local police for help (a common practice in that time). They told him to call “The Voice of the Red River Valley”, CKNY, the local radio station to put out an ad. He went down to the station and they put a call out on the air. A woman phoned in, who turned out to be his cousin (Allister’s daughter). She picked him up from the station and took him to his uncle’s house. Donald remembers she said, “Dad, one of your relatives from Scotland is here to visit”, and he immediately reverted to Gaelic, asking, “Who’s that?” Donald replied (in Gaelic), “Donald Head Dottie Moore” (his name, his mother’s name, his grandfather & great-grandfather’s nicknames). To which Uncle Allister said, “Mo ghradh, mo ghradh” (my dear, my dear) and pulled out a bottle of whiskey. His wife had a thick accent. Wife: Iris. Children: Two daughters; one who lives in England, and another who lives in B.C. Siblings: Ian, Lexie, twin brother Stuart. Donald’s mother hosted boarders for the Glasgow Police Pipe Band. His grandfather’s house in Scotland was called “the doctor’s house”. It’s located on a hamlet called Kyle’s Peible - “a beautiful machair (low-lying, grassy plane)”. He recalls a time when his mom asked if he would like a wee drop of “Polly” – whiskey from ship the SS Politician, which had famously run aground in Eriskay. His mother was a tall, good-looking, gentle woman. His parents never “strapped” or struck him or his siblings as discipline. Both parents spoke Gaelic, but couldn’t write it, and had thick Hebridian accents. The Depression was a tough time on the family, and there were times growing up when his father was out of work, but he never went on the “parish” (welfare). Donald was manager of a life insurance company for a time. He lived in Edmonton. When living in Toronto he was President of the Toronto Scottish Rugby Football Club. His first job was for a florist/fruit-seller in the Glasgow Foot Market, preparing orders and managing inventory. He would take the streetcar up Argyle St. He worked for a few years before moving onto construction and labour jobs. He worked for a rubber company which supplied motor parts to the Army. His twin brother had been drafted in the Army, and he was anxious to do the same, but learned his boss had declared him as a “reserve occupation”. He wrote to the War Office in Edinburgh and ultimately joined the Seaforth Highlanders, serving in WWII. Both he and his twin were short-sighted in one eye, which gave him the classification of “A4”. He was sent from training to York, then transferred to Nottingham. He applied to be commissioned as an officer like his older & twin brother had. When the Atom Bomb was dropped, they were shipped to Singapore, where Donald met his wife Iris at “Lord Louie’s Headquarters”. They were both shipped back to the U.K. after the War. He came to Toronto, Canada in spring 1947; his wife followed in spring 1948. Although they considered South Africa, the immigration officer in Glasgow told him, “You have to go to Canada – Canada is more Scottish than Scotland”. They initially planned to stay for a few years. He travelled by airplane, and Iris came by ship. Donald spent his first 3 days in a hostel on Jervis St. in Toronto, where lists of lodgers were provided. He lodged with Jesse & Tommy Reid. Canada had a great reputation in Scotland and everyone had a relative who lived there. He remembers feeling excited to see the bears and trees. Iris was still with the Army and was stationed in Chelsea when he came over. His first job in Canada was washing cars for several days. He then got a job with a manufacturing company making golf clubs, tennis rackets and golf balls. Donald applied to Sunlife Insurance, and was a salesman for several years before moving to Standard Life Insurance Company. It was this job which transferred him between Edmonton, Toronto, and eventually Vancouver. He worked for them until his retirement, after which he took a brokerage contract. Donald and Iris married before he came to Canada, in 1947, at St. Columbus Gaelic Church in Glasgow. He recalls people “presenting” in Gaelic at church. He remembers when he first arrived in 1947, Canada was entering an economic recession of sorts, and people worried of another Depression. One particular individual told him, “Jobs are for Canadians”. There was also a girl he met who felt jobs were being taken by Canadians. He found less and less of this sentiment as time went on. Donald’s feelings of “Scottishness” increased in Canada. He got involved in the Robbie Burns Club in Edmonton, which he hadn’t known much about in the old country, aside from visiting the Burns cottage one time. He remembers the dinner hosted Tommy Douglas at one time. He spent 10 years in Toronto, 10 years in Edmonton, before moving back to Toronto. He wrote the Burns Club in Edmonton for assistance to put on a Burns Supper in Toronto with his Scottish Rugby Football Club, which the Mayor attended. He recalls the story from this night. It’s since become a major event. He still feels a sense of belonging when visiting Scotland. Donald recalls the “crofting” life in the Hebrides, and the strictness of the Presbyterian faith in the area. Sunday was the Sabbath and he wasn’t allowed to play music. Looking back on his life, Donald may have gotten more education; both he and his mother were proud of the fact that despite this, he and his brothers finished as Captains in the Army. His biggest satisfaction is still being with his wife, as well as being involved in Rugby, as he had never had the chance while growing up in the tenements in Scotland. He learned to play while in India during his time in the Army.

: Interview of William T. Strachan; Jan 9 2012 William “Bill” Thomson Strachan Born: St. Fergus, Scotland on March 8, 1921. The house was built in the 1700’s. He was the oldest of 3 boys: William, Sandy? & Peter. His mom remarried after his father passed, and had 3 girls: Isabella, Sheila, & Lilas. [Step]Father: Peter Strachan. Father: William Dunbar. Born in Crimond. Grandfather: William Thomson. Harbour master in Peterhead. William’s great-grandfather [Thomson] died one day short of his 100th birthday. Mother: Isabella Thomson. Born in St. Fergus. Siblings: 3 sisters & 2 brothers. 1 brother moved to Australia, the other to Canada. Nobody in his family spoke Gaelic; they were Doric speakers [dialect of NE Scotland, Scandinavian roots]. William was raised as a farmboy. He went to school in Crimond. They were large classes; he went through until his Qualifying, then quit at age 12. He recalls getting the strap as discipline at school. He kept in contact with one of his former school teachers by letter when he was in the military in Singapore. He joined the military at age 17, after working on the family farm. William had a cousin who was a Regimental Sergeant Major. William later joined the Gordon Highlanders, serving in WWII. His brother was in the Royal Engineers. William didn’t want any promotion during his time in the Highlanders. He preferred the lower ranks. William was taken as a Prisoner of War in 1942, at the fall of Singapore. It was “meant to fall” to save Australia. He remembers his officer’s attitudes on the Japanese soldiers who were taking over Singapore. The Japanese military surprised them by attacking from behind, coming in on bicycles. William has two tattoos from his time in the war, before the fall of Singapore. While others would go to the brothels, he would go to get a tattoo. He was taken prisoner for several years – until the war ended in 1945. There were 1200 Gordon Highlanders captured, along with other regiments held as prisoners. They were made to build the “Death Railroad”, as they called it. The camp was in Kanchanaburi. They also built the bridge over the Mae Klong River. He remembers learning they were free – a plane landed with 12 men in uniforms they didn’t recognize. One prisoner died from the shock of being freed. A man from the plane asked William whether he remembered him, as they had met before. These men were secret service agents. Life in the POW camp was “bloody awful”. There were frequent beatings. Sometimes they would have bamboo platforms to sleep on, but other times they slept under the sky. The prisoners wore loincloths and no shoes. They were only fed rice. He learned to make rice wine, by layering it with brown sugar he stole from the Japanese. He never keeps rice in his house to this day. He tells a story of a man nodding to him, before walking into the trees nearby. He followed the man’s path, and found a dead steer. He managed to get it back to camp, and they cooked it in a big kettle into stew, which each man got to have with their rice. He remembers another time when a lion and her cub came within an arm’s length of him. At night, the prisoners had freedom of movement, because the Japanese troops were afraid to enter the jungle in darkness. William and others would venture out to Thai camps, where generous locals risked their lives by providing them with food and supplies to take back to camp. Alex Vanderleck – Dutch engineer who knew the local jungle, and showed other men what they could eat in the wild – bamboo shoots, etc. He called William “The Red Devil”, because of William’s red hair and the fact his skin would go bright red in the sun. Alex had said he was going to write a book by the same name, which William searched for after the War, and learned Alex never made it out of the camp. They walked barefoot to their work each day, sometimes up to 300 miles. The troops would push the prisoners to keep moving. The prisoners tried to make the railroad “as rough as they could”, striving to make things uneven so it would be less useful to the Japanese. The Thai government later repaired these sections after the war so it could function. William saw the fictional movie “Bridge on the River Kwai”, loosely based on the construction of the Burma railroad, and felt it was “awful”. They slaved for 15 hours a day working on the railroads; William estimates that the temperature was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. There was no thought or planning of escapes, because they knew they wouldn’t survive the snakes and other creatures in the jungle. They encountered lions and elephants while they worked. He knew one man from his regiment who just fell over and died. He was so emaciated “you could play the xylophone on his ribs”. Anyone who was caught providing aid to prisoners would be shot on the spot. Many local Thai people would give them soup and dry peanuts. There was a sergeant major who told him, “Watch what you say, a lot of them can speak English.” He later learned that man was an American living in Japan at the time of the War who had been conscripted by the Japanese military. When William and his fellow POWs were liberated, the first thing that the Allied soldiers did was provide them with pen and paper to write letters to their loved ones; however, the men had forgotten how to write properly, so it was a challenge. They came for the 12 men who were the sickest first, of which William was 1. They were flown to the hospital in Burma. One of the men’s wives flew to the hospital herself to see whether he was alive. He had to stand up and walk over to her because he was so emaciated, she couldn’t recognize him at all. William said nurses commented he looked like a “living skeleton” himself. He had been suffering from malaria and dysentery. He still suffers from malingering episodes of malaria to the time of the interview. William remembers saluting the crowd as they boarded the ship back to Britain. The skipper of the ship was told to take the 12 prisoners off, and instead, to bring 12 nurses home. He refused. They pulled into Sri Lanka, and the skipper handed them all a kit bag which they could fill with local goods for their family. William bought 2 handbags, for his sisters, and special tea for his mother. When they arrived at the British port in Southampton, there was a Japanese flag flying. The former POWs refused to disembark until it was lowered from their line of sight. William’s family didn’t know he was arriving. He took two trains to get home; 1 to Edinburgh, and another to Aberdeen. His mother didn’t recognize him when he returned to Ft. Angus. He walked in the back door, and didn’t say a word. His sisters didn’t recognize him either. He married his childhood sweetheart upon returning. He didn’t have to work upon returning, as the military paid him to support recovery. Wife: Margaret Wallace. Her brother passed away in a POW camp during the War. They were married Dec. 21st, 1945-1946? William knew he had an uncle in Canada, but didn’t know where he was; he moved here in order to locate him. Arriving with his wife, he spoke to the mayor of the town, Wakaw, Saskatchewan, and put an ad in the paper. This led to a cousin, which led to his uncle, William Thompson, living in New Westminster. He remembers his uncle Willie lived in a “cutterhouse” prior to moving to Canada. William came to Canada with his wife Margaret on a ship called the Churchill. They arrived in Nova Scotia, and took the train to Oyen, Alberta. William worked on a ranch, where he was a “cowboy”. A cook was needed at a ranch in Wakaw, and Margaret took the job, so they moved there, where William continued to ranch. He remembers learning to lasso for the first time. They moved to New Westminster, B.C. in the late 1950’s; they lived across the street from a couple. This is how he met his current wife; they got together later in life after experiencing the loss of their spouses. William worked at Swift Canadian in New Westminster, and became president of the Meat Processing Workers Credit Union. He has served as president for 20 years, and was elected for another 4 just prior to retiring from Swift. Bill Cruz was the treasurer of the Credit Union. He still keeps in contact with his sister in Scotland and her offspring. William’s mother was a farmer back in Scotland. They raised cattle and grew oats. Their farm was at least 100 acres. It had a greenhouse, where his grandfather had grown fruit. There was a lake on the property. William worked as a “horseman” during the summers on other farms, ploughing fields. Politics & religion were not issues in his family. William himself is non-religious. His family was very close. His favourite family members were the ones who lived close and came to visit for Easter. His mother would boil turkey and hen eggs for them. The trip to Canada took about a week. They knew they were moving to Canada permanently, and said goodbye to their family. He remembers his first day in Oyen, Alberta, speaking to two local German immigrants. He laughs that his Doric accent was not too different from their German accents, and they understood each other. His farm experience got him a job on the ranch. He never experienced any trouble integrating into Canada. He was struck by how big the country was when riding the train across. William’s oldest son (also named Bill) was the longest serving soldier in the Canadian military, serving 40 years before retiring. His son (William’s grandson) is now in the military as well. Children: Oldest son also named William (Bill). Son Sandy was a chef at the King Neptune. Now works as a truck driver. Daughters Sheila and Isabelle have both since passed away. Youngest daughter, Betty, is still alive and well, diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. William and his second wife (Jean) were members of the Sons of Scotland. He has gone back to visit Scotland. They celebrate Robbie Burns dinners, and make & dress haggis. At the time of the interview, the Scottish Nationalist Party was calling for a referendum on Scotland’s independence from the U.K. – William says most people he knows are in support of an independent Scottish nation. He feels there’s a good chance it will come about. William was starting to learn bagpiping from a friend while he was in the military, prior to becoming a POW. He attends the Highland Games, and used to work in the Heavy events. William’s favourite part of Scottish culture is the history and the music. His favourite Scottish food is haggis, scones and oat cakes. If he could do his life over, he would join the Gordon Highlanders again, but wishes he could avoid the experience of being a POW. He remembers being handed the controls as they flew out of the camp and over “Death Railway”, which brought tears to his eyes - a “heartwarming” moment of freedom. He returned to the area with his wife Jean in the late 1970’s, as a healing trip, and rode the railway themselves. He spoke with a man who used to feed the prisoners. There are 2 pieces of writing which William wrote himself, describing War experiences in detail (from his planned memoirs). These were scanned/digitized and included with the oral history collection. His wife Jean speaks briefly about her life at the end of the tape. She worked during the War engraving the sides of bombs. Born and raised in Toronto, later moving to B.C. William speaks of meeting Diefenbaker by chance. He also met Tommy Douglas several times. He tells the story of a bombing that occurred while he was a POW. Sadly, a boxcar full of young local girls (used as sex slaves by the Japanese military) were killed.

: Interview of John McIlwraith; March 10 2005 John McIlwraith (b. Sept. 4, 1926 in Glasgow) was one of four children. Father: William Mason Peyton McIlwraith (b. in Connel Ferry, Scotland (near Oban)), had three brothers and three sisters. He met John’s mother after returning from service in the First World War. William was an engineer for Singer as well as an amateur musician (banjo, guitar, piano, choir conductor) and baker. He would compose and transpose music for choirs. During the Depression, he was forced to take on a variety of odd jobs to make ends meet (perming hair, painting, photography), and refused to accept unemployment. A small man, he was very bright and disciplined. John’s paternal grandfather, John McIlwraith, was a foreman for the Singer’s Clydesbank factory. Mother: née Phee (b. 1901 in Portobello, Edinburgh; one of seven children), also worked for Singer; she was in the accounts department. John’s father first saw her on the train to work. In her spare time she sang and competed against John’s father in their household baking competitions. At the time of interview (2005), John’s mother was 104 years old and living in Victoria. John’s maternal grandmother (from Arran) was a Gaelic speaker (John understood some as well). The McIlwraiths were not religious. They were a close family; having no television, they often spent evenings together listening to John’s father’s music. John’s favourite relative was his paternal uncle, Bob, who was a carpenter and a “generous man.” John spent the majority of his childhood living in a flat with his family in Glasgow until the outbreak of the Second World War when he, his siblings, and a couple of his cousins went to live with his their maternal grandmother in Machrie Bay on the Isle of Arran. He was around 11 or 12 at the time. He attended elementary school in both Glasgow (St. David’s) and on Arran and completed his secondary school education upon his return to Glasgow at the end of the war. His school on Arran had grades 1-6 in the same class. After graduation, John attended Skerry’s College in Glasgow, learning shorthand and typing. John has since worked as a writer and broadcaster for many different newspapers/companies in both Scotland and Canada, including: CKNW, Mississauga News, and the Oakville Courier, among others. He was a columnist mainly writing essays and humourous pieces. He had written some humourous essays in Scotland. Before beginning his professional career, John did a variety of odd jobs throughout his youth (errand boy, milk and grocery delivery, and newspaper delivery). He remembers siphoning cream off the top of milk deliveries. John immigrated alone to Canada in the spring of 1957. It had become too hard to earn a living in Scotland. His wife at the time, Bridie (1st wife, Bridget Fitzsimmons, a nurse whom he married in 1950), and their three children (Gordon, Susan, and Fraser) later joined him. They first moved to Vancouver, then to Ontario for 3-4 years, and later returned to Burnaby/Vancouver. John worked as the Sales Manager for Evergreen Press for ten years and was a co-owner of the French restaurant, La Colombe. Although not successful at the time of purchase, John helped turn the restaurant into the finest French eatery in Vancouver. When asked about memories of saying goodbye to his family and friends in Scotland, John mentioned the going-away party that his friends held for him. He knew a friend who had moved to Hamilton. His parents thought his move to Canada was a great idea; his sister Mary was already living in California at the time and many members of his family gradually emigrated in the years following. He remembers the day he left Scotland, there was a piper playing at the airport and it was pouring rain; as he landed in Vancouver, it was also pouring rain, and a piper played at the airport. He felt he hadn’t gone very far from home. Children: Gordon (b. 1952), Susan (b. 1954) & Fraser. John passed away in 2006 (one year after the time of this interview).

: Interview of Jim Bain

: Interview of Chief Ian Campbell; Feb 27 2012 Chief Ian Geordie (middle name from the movie “Wee Geordie”) Campbell (b. 1973 in North Vancouver, BC) of the Squamish Nation is the youngest of two children (older sister). His mother (of the Baker family, from the Englishman John Baker) has three siblings and his father, Wayne, has six. Ian’s surname “Campbell” is from Jimmy Campbell, a Scottish emigrant who married a Katzie woman (Fort Langley area) in the mid 1800s. Jimmy’s daughter, Jenny Campbell, was a member of the Cowichan nation. Ian can trace his lineage seven generations back to Jimmy Campbell. Jimmy’s exact place of birth is unknown, but it is assumed that he emigrated for work purposes (it is also unknown as to whether he was a Gaelic speaker). He later left Jenny’s mother and moved to New York, perhaps for his other “white” wife. His daughter, Jenny, grew up near Pitt Lake; her upbringing is indicative of life before Reserves and the mass depopulation (through smallpox, tuberculosis and influenza epidemics), trauma, grief, decimation of villages, mass burials, decline of traditional economies, alienation from land, and overall marginalization that accompanied the forced resettlement. Different familial branches are very important for ceremonial rights, resources, economies, and ancestral names. While Ian is a member of the Squamish Nation, he can trace his ancestry on the Campbell side back through his Musqueam (Ian’s father is half Musqueam), Cowichan and to his Katzie ancestors; there are 500 to 700 Campbells on this side of the family. There have been three Campbell clan gatherings within Ian’s lifetime; unfortunately, the logistics prove difficult, thus preventing more regular events. The “Campbell” surname has both opened and closed doors for Ian; it either elicits “big hugs or more negative reactions.” Ian shares a Scottish affinity because of the Campbell surname. In 1997, he travelled to Scotland with Ovide Mercredi as the Canadian youth representative for the Assembly of First Nations. Ian also met the late chief John Macleod. Ian is very proud of his lineage and at times he is proud to be Canadian; however, he emphasizes the work that still needs to be done on improving relations between Canada and its First Nations peoples. Although improving, Canada still needs to be held accountable for its continual legislative oppression and paternalism. Ian speaks of oil, gas, and mining as examples of the official Canadian preference for profit over respect and relationships to the land; Ian is involved in issues and protest surrounding the proposed Kinder Morgan pipeline. Ian Campbell is the youngest of sixteen hereditary chiefs. His maternal (Baker) grandfather mentored him; he can speak the Squamish language proficiently and knows a great deal about the history and traditions of the Squamish peoples. In 1923, many different Squamish tribes amalgamated into one nation and, in 1981 an elected council replaced the former hereditary system; Ian is both a hereditary Chief and an elected Councillor. The mentoring system of future Chiefs is similar to the Scottish clan fostering system. As well, the traditions of welcoming ceremonies and canoe songs are similar to the traditional purposes of Scottish piping. Since 1993 there has been a huge resurgence of canoe culture within the Squamish Nation; Ian believes that the continual cultivation of traditions, language, and culture is very important. He is involved in spiritual work and cleansing ceremonies (i.e. 2012 Justice Forum) and enjoys singing and hiking (connecting with the land is very important to Ian). Ian was very involved in the 2010 Winter Olympics as one of the First Nations co-hosts. By negotiating with the Bid Corporation and working together with the Lillooet, Musqueam, and Tseil-Waututh Nations, Ian and the Squamish Nation were able to ensure many benefits for Aboriginal Canadians. In addition to other forms of public outreach, Ian worked on the Opening Ceremonies, organizing 350 Aboriginal youth to perform, and was behind the bilingual signage on the Sea-to-Sky highway. Ian emphasizes the importance of the Olympics as a catalyst for improving Canadian-Aboriginal relations and as a venue to showcase Aboriginal culture; furthermore, Ian stresses the fact that the four nations were co-hosts of the Olympics and not merely in the background. Chief Ian Campbell was also recently named one of “BC’s Best and Brightest Up-and-Comers” (1997/1998). After serving on the Vancouver Community College (VCC) Board of Governors, John Cruickshank, the former president, recommended Ian Campbell for the award. Speaking of the Aboriginal Achievement Awards, Ian Campbell says that it has had a very positive influence on the Native community. He has been on the host committee twice and thinks that it is a mechanism for youth success and for the continuity of Aboriginal traditions and culture. Ian believes that is crucial that Squamish youth connect to their traditional culture, especially as the traditional Squamish language is in decline (currently 12/3700 are fluent speakers). Youth currently comprise sixty percent of the Squamish tribe and there are plans for a language immersion programme. Ian Campbell’s generation was the first out of residential school; he believes in adaptation and not assimilation. When asked about the First Nations Commercial and Industrial Act (2005), Ian says that it is part of breaking free from the Indian Act and “moving away from this dysfunctional relationship.” FNCIDA has been successful for those tribes able to implement it; Ian credits the work of Harold Calla and Chief Robert Louie in this process. As a tool for financial transparency and accountability, the First Nations Statistical Management Act is also crucial to allowing more land autonomy and breaking free from federal, provincial, and municipal paternalism. In order to abolish to Indian Act, Ian believes that jurisdiction needs to change and that the Aboriginal economy needs to be able to operate/increase independent of federal transfer dollars. Ian’s favourite relatives include one of his first cousins and his grandfather, both of whom have been great mentors to him. Ian was married for ten years to an Ojibway woman; their children were brought up Squamish, but maintain strong connections to Ontario and to their mother’s family. When asked about traditional Native beliefs and traditional European religions (i.e. Christianity), Ian says that many older Squamish people are Christian while most of the younger ones are following traditional beliefs. There is great interdenominational reconciliation occurring, especially in relation to the former outlawing of longhouse gatherings, cultural practices, and other forms of physical and legal oppression. Ian states that it is his connection to the land and to the natural world that keeps him going in his role as a Chief, a job in which he encounters constant conflict.

: Interview of Graham Davidson, 1; 2; Graham Davidson August 7, 2012; August 15, 2012. Born: Graham Stewart Davidson, June 1st 1957, in Stobhill Hospital, Glasgow, Scotland. 1 older sister named Sandra, who lives on Vancouver Island. Father: Alexander Blair Davidson, born 1919 in Bishopbriggs. Youngest of 3 (two older sisters, Margaret & Betty). Alex’s father (Graham’s grandfather) passed when he was 14. Mother: Kathleen Graham Stewart, born in 1923 in Bishopbriggs. Eldest of 2 daughters (younger sister Mirian, drowned at age 10). Maternal Grandfather: Samuel Graham Stewart, one of 8 brothers. A woodworker by trade; built a lot of the homes in Bishopbriggs, which still stand today. He owned a shop on Crowhill Rd, which Bob Hardy (famous bagpipe maker) took over upon his retirement in 1964. Samuel was the one who trained Bob in woodworking. Bob went to school with Kathleen and played at her wedding to Graham’s father. Nobody in his family spoke Gaelic. He has a few cousins in Scotland from his father’s side who he keeps in contact with. The family immigrated to Canada when he was 2 years old. His father came 6 months ahead of them, in 1959, and landed in Montreal. He took the train out to Vancouver, and was looking for 4 months. He had almost given up and was packing to leave when he got a call for a job at MacMillan-Bloedel. He worked as a draftsman, and later moved to H.A. Simons (pulp & paper mills), working as an estimator. He purchased a house in Lynn Valley, and the family followed him out to Canada, travelling by ship and rail. His parents owned a cabin up by Sechelt. Graham attended school in North Vancouver. The family moved and he attended Windsor School, where he graduated from High School. Graham first heard bagpipes in the Pacific National Exhibition parade in Vancouver – the pipe bands were the only part he watched as a child. This inspired him to pick up piping, and his first teacher was a man named Richard Drybrooke. Dave Russell, a drummer from the Seaforth Highlanders, started the White Hackle Pipe Band and in North Vancouver. Bruce Topp was another instructor to Graham, who introduced him to the BC Piper’s Association & Seaforth Highlanders Cadets. In the Cadets, he met a man named Ed Esson, who was his instructor for a long time. You had to be 11 to be a cadet, and Graham was only 9, but Ed insisted he be allowed in. Ed was the King’s Piper for a time; he was “a real Highland gentleman”, and Pipe Major of the Seaforth Highlanders for years. Nigel Alakija was another instructor of his, originally from Inverness. They encouraged his parents to take him to Highland Games around the west coast, and he would attend the Nelson School of Piping. Donald MacLeod was a regular at these games. Bill Sutherland, a war buddy of Donald and “Big Angus”, started the school in Nelson. Bob Hardy provided Graham’s first set of bagpipes to him with no invoice, but his father insisted on paying the full price. Without a doubt, Ed Esson was Graham’s largest influence. He was like a grandfather figure, and a really nice man. Graham was a small boy and Ed always looked out for him, helping him with technique. Graham played one year in the City of Port Moody Pipe Band, until he called Pipe Major Hal Senyk and asked to join the Triumph Street Pipe Band. They went to the World Championships in 1976; they had no money, so the team had mixed kilts, but matching shirts and vests. All the other teams were in full dress uniforms. They ended up 23rd out of 24th at the worlds, but then 2 weeks later, they finished 4th . The band returned to the Worlds in 1979 in Nottingham, and played very well. They placed 5th, and were Best Overseas Band; also received the Red Sash for Best Drum Corps. Willie McErlean was the Lead Tip at the time, and it was the first time a band outside Scotland had won a major prize. Graham was with the Triumph Street Band from 1975-1995. The band had undergone a lot of changes in the years prior. At that point he took over as Pipe Major for the Maple Ridge Pipe Band (Grade 3; later moved up to Grade 2). He chose to leave his position and shortly after, he played with City of Abbotsford Pipe Band for 1 year; Stuart MacNeil was the Pipe Major at that time. At this time in his life, Graham and his wife had one son, and were expecting twins. He left the Abbotsford Pipe Band to spend more time at home. At the same time, he had been teaching for the White Spot Pipe Band, and was approached to take over leadership, which he agreed to. With the White Spot Organization, Graham was responsible for advising parents, finding instructors, and designing the musical program. He is still with the band at the time of interview, and has seen upwards of 1000 kids go through in his time there. The White Spot Organization has piping, drumming, and Highland dancing programs for children. Graham’s experiences with Ed Esson as an instructor influences his standard for instructors today. They have been the BCPA Champions for 8 out of the 10 years prior to the time of interview. He decided to form a band called the Greighlan Crossing Pipe Band, the bulk membership of which are players who have graduated out of White Spot. The Greighlan Crossing logo is a double-headed dragon; because of this, they were invited to perform in Beijing, China in 2010, at the 12th Beijing International Cultural Tourism Festival. An organizer of the festival had stumbled across the Greighlan Crossing website, and fell in love with the band and its logo, as the dragon represents good luck in China. They did a 2 minute performance which was judged. The Band (and administrative staff) on this 10 day trip ranged from ages 14 – 62. The festival was all about bringing the world to China, in Graham’s impression. There was a wide variety of acts. The Band was able to go sight-seeing in their time there and were treated very well. They were voted the best act of the day. They also did a 5-6 block parade while in Beijing, on a road similar to Granville Street in Vancouver. The crowd went “absolutely nuts” for the Band. The Band also performed at a shopping mall and at the Bird’s Nest (Beijing National Stadium). A “bucket list” item of Grahams’ was to play bagpipes on the Great Wall of China, and the Band all did the same. Someone called the Military Police on them; their interpreter/guide explained their side of things, and the Police eventually left, saying “Don’t waste our time again!” to the caller. The Band has been requested to play the festival again in September 2012. Graham another solo piper who he is close with, Andy Wright. He says he has encountered a majority of wonderful, kind people in the bagpiping community, and he is sure if he turned up to a bagpiper’s house, he would have a place to stay. Graham’s first Annual Gathering of the BC Piper’s Association was held at the Vancouver Recreational Centre in Longsdale, around age 10 or 11. He marvels at how much the gathering has evolved. He didn’t win very often in his early years, but he continued to play due to his love of it. Ed Esson and Hal Senyk led his playing to “take off”; Ed was very technical and emphasized fingering, while Hal was a “sound guy”, focusing on the sound from tuning the pipes. Graham won the first professional competition he ever played, on the insistence of Hal. He even played Hal’s pipes, and Hal was a “bit perturbed”, as he’d “never heard them sound so good”. Most of the judges at the BCPA gatherings were from Scotland. This exposed him to phenomenal players of the day. The President of the BCPA in the 1980’s was Donald MacMillan, who suggested to bring out 2 piping judges from Scotland. Graham has been President from 2008-2012, as well as Chair for the Annual Gathering. Vancouver is a “hot spot” in North America for piping, and players are often eager to come out. The Annual Gathering lasts two days, and includes pro drumming events, a recital, solos, and a pipe band contest. One of Graham’s best years at the Annual Gathering was when Rob Matheson & Jim Kilpatrick were brought out after the release of their 2nd album, Ebb Tide. Nearly 500 people came out to see them play. Graham has noticed an expansion in the areas where people travel from to enter the competition. Graham doesn’t have any favourites to include in medleys, as you always have to keep it changing. He feels medleys have progressed from the 1970s; new tunes from new composers, involving syncopation and other inventive styles which are enjoyable to play. In years leading up to these interviews, the popularity of pipe bands, Celtic musicians and Highland dancing has seen an increase; Graham expects this trend to continue, as bands continue to add new instruments all the time, increasing their diversity and entertainment value. Graham has 3 children: One of his twin sons, Trevor, is a bagpiper; he wanted to play his father’s pipes from age 2 on. His favourite tune to play as a boy was “Scotland The Brave”; he played in Graham at the Couer d’Alene at the age of 3. He had to play with his hands reversed because he was so small. He moved very quickly through the ranks of the White Spot Pipe Band, and is now a Grade 1 competitor. Also Pipe Major of the Greighlan Crossing Pipe Band. Maclain is a drummer. He took up drumming as a boy and was happy to be included with his father and brother. He was the Grand Aggregate Winner for Grade 3 Drumming in 2012, and will be promoted to Grade 2. He also went through the White Spot Pipe Band, and is in the Drum Corps of Greighlan Crossing. Graham’s oldest son Chris was not interested in taking up Scottish music. He played guitar for a time. Working with children in his bagpiping career has been very satisfying for Graham. He discusses the recent winners of the World Championships. He has done extensive work with the BC Piper’s Association. He took on the task of organizing the newsletter for a time, in order to communicate with the membership. Since 1992, Graham has worked for the District of North Vancouver, managing supplies. The majority of the municipalities are part of a co-op which allows them to purchase supplies at a group rate. There are about 40 commodities which all municipalities use; Graham is responsible for the supply of one commodity – garbage bags – for all districts in the co-op. He approximates the co-op currently [in 2012] spends about one million dollars on this commodity. His employer and staff understand his involvement in bagpiping and respect that he needs time off to travel. Upon travelling to Scotland, Graham feels a sense of connection to his birthplace, although he considers Vancouver home. He finds Canadians are well received in Scotland, although people don’t understand how large the country is compared to the U.K. – he has the common experience of being asked if he knows someone from Toronto. He didn’t consider his “Scottishness”, until he became more involved in Burns Suppers in his mid-30’s, and began studying more Scottish history. He doesn’t think his sons have this connection to their heritage yet, but are more exposed to it than he was at their age. Graham hadn’t even tried haggis until age 25. His maternal grandfather was always blasting Scottish music on his record player, and read Robbie Burns poems, but these hobbies didn’t carry onto his parents. They wanted to try Scottish Country Dancing, but were unable to arrange it. Politics were not major issues in his family; he attended church as a child, but gradually stopped as he became older. They often had family gatherings with his cousins in North Vancouver growing up. He now sees his sister when he attends the Comox Highland Games on the Island. His favourite relative was his Uncle Jim (his mother’s cousin). He plays at about 4 or 5 Burns Dinners per year. He eats haggis at the dinners, and makes his dad’s shortbread recipe at home. He first tried a dram of scotch at 16. Wife: Sandra; met at a bar in Surrey named Champagne’s. That weekend, the Triumph Street Band was having a “Tacky Tourist Party”, which he invited her to. It turned out her best friend worked with Graham, and she encouraged Sandra to go to the party. She knew that being involved with bands was important to Graham, and he spent a lot of time practicing. When their twins decided to get involved, life became “simpler”, as he was able to take them along. They are coming up on 26 years of marriage in 2012. Growing up in the 1950’s, Graham was influenced by the Beatles, but is a lover of all music, especially soft jazz. He has travelled to Scotland several times in the past 10 years. Looking back on his life, he would change injuring his hand if he could. He worked at a sugar refinery in 1978, and injured his hand on an industrial oven fan. He had an accident 6 months prior to that where his hand was caught in wheels – his doctor told him he wouldn’t be able to pipe again after his work accident. It took him about 6 months to heal and become mobile again. He cannot play a “bubbly B”, but this is his only restriction in piping. He taught the Vancouver Ladies Pipe Band for 4-5 years prior to going to the Maple Ridge Pipe Band. His son Trevor has encouraged him to return to professional competitions, but he is not interested. Graham doesn’t have an opinion on the 2012 politics/referendum in Scotland, and has had a few minor conversations on it. He only wishes the people get what they want. Graham discusses the formation of Greighlan Crossing Pipe Band with Len Moreau, for players who graduated out of White Spot and didn’t move on to Grade 1 Bands. A group of Rotary Clubs called District 50/50 provided them with the funds to start up, along with minor fundraisers organized by Len & Graeme. The group wore mixed kilts – family tartans – and wore white shirts and black ties. The name of the band came from a combination of Graeme & Len’s name with a more Gaelic/Celtic spelling (originally Gralen). A parent of a band member developed the logo – two dragon heads in a Celtic knot. They developed a “legend” behind the name & logo.

: Interview of Hamish and Isla Robertson : Interview; June 18 2005 (Isla Clark and James Robertson) Isla Mary Clark Robertson (Montgrew Farm, Keith, Banffshire, 1 September 1940; her name comes from the river Isla in the North East, not the place). She has an older brother, Ian, and two older sisters, Audrey and Josephine-Jessy, a younger sister, Wilma Mackay, and younger brother, Alastair. Her father was William Clark (Fortry Farm, Grange, Banffshire, May 12, 1912). He came from a family of six: James, George, John, Alexander, Elizabeth, and then himself. A lot of them joined the police force. He was a farmer's son and was tipped to take over the farm, but there was a disagreement and he therefore ended up working on different farms. He then signed up to the Territorial Army and called up to the Seaforth Highlanders during WWII; he stayed in army until 1951. He then worked for the laird of Ballindalloch for a year; they got their own place called Delchirach and stayed there until his son took it over. They retired to the old station house in Ballindalloch. They were a quite a devout, Church of Scotland Protestant family. He sang in the choir and became known as the “Bothy Ballad King” of the North East; he was recorded by Hamish Henderson, who was collecting songs for the Scottish Studies Department of Edinburgh University. (Link: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bothy-Ballads-Northeast-Various-Artists/dp/B000002419/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1315586577&sr=8-2). Her mother was Josephine Robb MacKay (Montgrew Farm, Keith, Banffshire). She came from a Catholic family, but they were not all that religious. A story goes that a Catholic priest was chased out of the house, either by the grandfather, who might have had a drinking problem, or by the grandmother, who was not prepared to have any more children! Her brother played the fiddle. None of them were into bagpipes, but they did enjoy the Highland Games. She stayed at Fort George, Inverness, during the war. She said it was a great place to be as a child; they woke up to the bagpipes every morning and were able to “run wild”. She went to school there with children from all over Scotland and some from England. She then lived in Ardersier on the Moray Firth until she was 11, and then went to Corglass, Knockando, which is now a wind-farm. While there she went to Aberlour school and then moved to Ballindallich. She then left to go to Edinburgh after high school and worked in the Scottish Records Office for two years. Her job entailed delivering bound volumes of records to Sir James Fergusson of Kilkerren, the Keeper of the Records of Scotland. After a year she learnt polyography and became the reader indexer of records; she was chosen because she was the only one who knew how to read Latin. But she decided to become a teacher instead and signed up for teacher-training at Murrayhouse, Edinburgh, and was given a grant for college because Scotland was in desperate need for teachers; she was there for 3 years. After college, she taught at a school in Easterhouse, Glasgow, “a slum clearance area with not a lot of facilities”, and then Saracen Primary School. She remembers discipline (i.e. the belt) and “respect” towards the teacher (i.e you didn’t question their decisions/judgements) being a big part of the Scottish education experience when she was both a child and a teacher herself. After this, she emigrated to Montreal with her husband, James, to teach at Maisonevue School and remembers a “fantastic difference” in the attitude of the children towards the teacher (she doesn’t specify what, but no doubt it was something to do with less harsh discipline and less deference. When she first came, she had to do two years probationary work in Quebec to get a permanent teaching certificate. She left Canada to go back to Scotland, had a child, and became a stay-at-home mum for a while. She then returned to Canada and she became a substitute teacher for a while. One of the reasons she came to Canada was so her children wouldn't be brought up in Scotland's sectarian mess. She remembers Paisley was a real eye-opener in terms of bigotry. Even the nurseries were separated along religious lines; she remembers walls being built. She also worked for the Victoria Order of Nurses for two years as a care assistant. She remembers caring for a 92 year old Scottish lady who was from Peebles; she became very fond of her and found it hard to cope with her death. She then took a secretarial course at Capilano College 1980 and subsequently got a job as a stenographer and then a PA to the Consul General and the British Consulate and stayed in this employment until retirement. She thinks that British Columbia has inherited a class-consciousness from its British roots, although it's moderated somewhat by a monetary-class-consciousness from America rather than a social one. She got involved in Sons of Scotland in West Vancouver– her roles included being a Treasurer, a standard bearer, and chief of the Seaforth Camp in North Vancouver. She also joined the Moray, Nairn and Banff Society and later became the society’s president. Around the early 1990s both this society and the Caledonian Society were fading away (lack of membership, money, drive). So Isla came up with the idea that they really needed to provide more and better quality Scottish entertainment, so they booked such artists as Roddy Brown from the Corries, Gaberlunzie, Peter Morrison, Old Blind Dogs, and subsequently put on a lot of great programs. The society’s Burns Suppers attendance grew and its newsletter reached a peak of 400 members at one stage. But there was a significant lack of young people and the older members, inevitably, started to fade away. All the events were held in the Scottish Cultural Centre. She also feels that younger people – that is, children and grandchildren of Scots, etc – do not need the “support” of the centre like their emigrant parents or grandparents sought out, nor do they have a real desire to gather in order to keep hold of a heritage – they are Canadian. Although she feels things like piping and Highland Dancing will keep on growing, she is fearful of the future of small membership groups such as the Moray, Nairn and Banff Society. She goes back to Scotland every year to see her relatives. When speaking of her feelings when going to Scotland, she says she used to feel like they were going home when her parents were there, but now she feels the opposite – her children, on the most part, are in Canada, and so are most of their closest friends. When asked if her feelings of Scottishness grew due to her being in Canada, say states quite bluntly, “No”. She does say, however, that she is quite “North-East” in her way of doing things, and they have a lot of Scottish friends, but they also have friends from other places, like Hungary, China, and Kenya, which broadens one’s perspective. She does say that she personally feels “rooted” in her Scottishness and thinks that she will never feel fully Canadian. She still eats porridge for breakfast, for example, and her Scottish sweet-tooth is still firmly in place! She enjoys reading Ian Rankin and Sunset Song is a favourite novel. She can't stand Sir Walter Scott.... But her tastes are pretty eclectic. She doesn't enjoy “overwhelmingly Scottish” novels; Rankin is good because he's just a good writer. James MacIntyre Robertson (Granton-on-Spey, 12 January 1936). He started school in Tomintoul in the Cairngorms. He remembers there being a lot of evacuee children from the cities at his school (supposedly as a precaution to escape the bombing) as well as children who had lost their parents. He also remembers a lot of orphaned kids from Glasgow were gathered by the Catholic Church, Catholocized, and sent up to Tomintoul. The majority of people in Tomintoul were Catholic and there was no sectarian animosity in these places like there was/is in Glasgow. People tended to marry into same religion, but there was no segregation when it came to education, etc. He left school at 15 and became a ship-right apprentice in Glasgow. He got 28 shillings a week from the Youth Employment Office to live on. He remembers the shipyards being awash with people. His first job was working on a destroyer around 1951. The personnel officer was a man named MacNeil, who was one of the performers of the popular radio show The Mcflannels. He remembers learning that he was murdered in Govan for being a homosexual. It was MacNeil who urged James to take his Junior National Certificate, so he went to night school at Sholans Academy in order to accomplish this. When back at work, he started making moulds and templates for commercial- and passenger-ships. He finished his apprenticeship, was called up for National Service in the RAF (repairing aircraft), and then was posted to Singapore as a maintenance worker in a confiscated German liner. His was the first commercial ship to go through the Suez Canal after the long years of unrest. He stayed in Singapore for a year and a half before coming back to Scotland on Christmas Day, 1958. He returned to work at Fairfield shipyard. By this time, the first computers were coming out, and they were doing 10-scale drawing. So he was sent to Glasgow University for one day a week to learn computer programming. He also met Isla around this time, and they were married in 1966. They learnt of opportunities in Montreal through newspaper advertisements, and so they emigrated (see Isla’s transcript). He worked for Vickers, which was on the French-speaking East Side of Montreal. He then applied for position in Toronto as a loftsman at Douglas Aircraft; he drove back to Montreal every weekend. Then they went back to Scotland and stayed in Port Glasgow for a year, then Paisley, with James working for Lithgows for 4 years. He was then offered a job in Collingwood, Ontario, but the process took too long. He then found out about work at the Vancouver Shipyards, which was just about to begin building the Queen of Alberni. They enjoyed their first year in Vancouver and decided to stay. He worked in many shipyards and ship-related jobs across Canada until his retirement at 65. His father was Edward John Robertson (Duffton, 1895-1985). He was a joiner and was wounded in WWI. He became a postman after the war. His mother was Kristina MacIntyre Robertson (Aberfeldy). She came from a family of 6; 4 bothers became policemen. She went to Tomintoul to work in the hotel. Keywords: Banffshire; Tomintoul; ballads; teaching; Scottish societies; religion; shipyards

: Interview of Mary Macaree

: Interview of James Balfour Buchanan; March 8, 2004 James “Jim” Balfour Buchanan (b. March 31, 1921 in Vancouver) is the only child of James Buchanan (b. Feb. 1877 in Shanghai; d. 1944 in Vancouver) and his mother (b. in Kingston, Jamaica), whose maiden name was Balfour. Father: sent to boarding school in Yorkshire, England at age 8. After completing his schooling, he lived in Germany for one year, learning the language and thus preparing him for later services as an interpreter at the end of the First World War. He was living in California when the War started, and moved to England to enlist. During the War he was in the Canadian Service Corps, assisting with ammunitions, and stationed in France. Worked as an accountant after the War. Paternal grandfather: also James Buchanan (b.1850 in Dunbar, Scotland), went to Beijing, China in 1867 as an apprentice seaman. Afterwards moved to Shanghai, where he worked as a stockbroker, and had a family. He was also an accomplished rower. He lived and worked in Shanghai until around 1900. His brother, John, was a physician in Liverpool. Paternal grandmother: maiden name was Ure. (d.1940). She lived in Berkeley, California until around 1930, and James visited her several times as a child. Members of her family continued to run James’ stockbroking firm in Shanghai up until the early 1940’s, when the Second World War broke out. Paternal great-grandfather: also James Buchanan, was a baker in Dunbar, Scotland. James tries to keep in touch with some Buchanan cousins still in England when he can. Mother: Balfour. Born in Kingston, Jamaica. 1 of 3 daughters (Sister Edith, lived in Toronto, d. 1985; other in California). She travelled to Westray when living in England. Identified herself as Anglican despite coming from a Baptist upbringing. Maternal grandfather: James Balfour. One of 8 children (5 sons, 3 daughters). They were raised on a 70 acre farm in Westray (Most Western of the Orkney Islands). James went to the University of Glasgow, for his Bachelor’s of Divinity (he was a Baptist); 2 of his siblings received law degrees from Glasgow as well. One of these siblings (David Balfour) became registrar general in the Jamaican government, and children stayed in Jamaica for 2 generations. 2 other siblings settled in Manitoba; a granddaughter from this line lives in Vancouver & contacted James. James moved to Kingston, Jamaica to work as the assistant principal of the local bishop’s college. Passed in 1912; buried in Highgate Cemetery in England. Maternal grandmother: Maiden name: Ada East. Born in Jamaica to an English couple with the surname East, who had settled in the area & established a Boy’s School in 1860. Married James Balfour. They moved together with their children to South Carolina, USA, where James worked in a Baptist college. They lived in England in the early 1900’s, and after her husband died, Ada moved with her 3 daughters to Lloydminster, Saskatchewan, Canada in 1904. She often lived with James’ family while he was growing up, and he was very close with her. Ada passed away in Vancouver in 1936. Maternal great-grandfather: David East; died 1901 in England. James has travelled to Scotland twice; once in 1951, when he discovered the Buchanan Castle existed, and another in 1999. He has always been interested in his Scottish heritage. He bought a Buchanan tartan while in Edinburgh. James struggled with health problems (asthma) growing up in West Pt. Grey, Vancouver, and was in & out of school for a time. He discusses evolution of real estate in his old neighbourhood; his mother sold their house in the 1940’s for $8500; the same house was last purchased for $850,000 in early 2000’s, before being demolished. James attended University Hills School; attended University of British Columbia. He was not involved in the Second World War due to his health problems. He stayed on at UBC as an assistant, and got his Master’s degree in Chemistry. He went to Cornell University in 1946 for his Ph.D., and stayed on there until 1952. He got a job in his department at DuPont in Wilmington, Delaware, and worked there for 30 years. He came out to Vancouver in 1983 “just to look around”, as his mother still lived here. He bought a place near False Creek with the intention of renting, and ended up moving in himself in 1985. He lived there until 6 months prior to this interview. He never married or had children in his life. James has done a lot of travelling in his life, well into retirement, including trips to Europe, Asia, Central America & Africa. James started work with DuPont Pharmaceuticals May 15, 1952. The largest project he was involved in was the development of an antibiotic. His focus later shifted to the agricultural side of the company, which developed pesticides, insecticides, and herbicides. He does not think the development of these chemicals was associated with the chemical research gas from World War Two. He discusses the issues with DDT. Most of the products James was involved with were insecticides which are still used. In 1971, a plague of moths overwhelmed agriculture in Alberta & Saskatchewan. His product, “Lannate”, was used to successfully treat the infestation. The canola crop was particularly at risk. “Every crop duster in Western Canada was spraying it”. In his later years, James was involved in the favourite Scottish pastime of golf, before moving onto a hobby of sailing. He has read books on Scottish history, particularly on Fife and the Balfour family. He visited Edinburgh and went to many bookstores. He has also read on the name Buchanan – in Gaelic, it means “House of the Canon”. The family’s slogans are in Latin. Never had haggis. Owns a few bagpipe records, was interested in piping – saw one Tattoo in the 1940s. He had many other Scottish neighbours when growing up in Pt. Grey. He remembers there were more MacDonalds than Smiths in the phonebook. His father played cricket in the neighbourhood.

: Interview of Edward and Mary Ann Gibson : Interview; 1 May 2004 (volume quality is very faint; some of what they say is very hard to make out) Edward and Marianne Gibson Edward Mark Walter Gibson (Sinco, Ontario, October 29, 1934). He is the second of two children. Their son, Walter, was named after Sir Walter Scott. They have been to Jedburgh, Scotland, searching the Reekie family connection. Edward has also been to Scotland a few more times, with the military and for academic reasons. He was with the Canadian Black Watch for seven years. He went to high-school in Ontario; military service was obligatory. He did his Ph.D (Geography) at UBC and then applied to SFU. He was a cultural geographer. He was a choir and alter-boy in the Anglican Church. He is on the left politically. He also raised Highland cattle in Canada and sells grain-feed beef. He has a strong emotional connection with the pipes, especially from the Black Watch days. When asked if they have any feelings of “Scottishness” when visiting Scotland, Edward says he always feels a “moment of anticipation” and “moment of arrival” when they come to Scotland. They “feel at home” in Scotland. And a lot of the country reminds them of Canada, especially when they see Douglas and Scotch firs. They both say they have a Scottish “identity” and that it is mainly to do with keeping in contact with traditions and histories. Edward has a great feeling, especially through his mother’s side, of being a Lowland Scot. He talks of the strong Scottish connection at Simon Fraser University. His father was Walter Hogdens Gibson (St Katherine’s). A large number of the Gibson clan were born in St Katherine’s from the time of the American Rebellion on the Niagara Frontier. A lot them migrated to British Columbia. Walter’s side of the family were therefore Empire Loyalists. One of his ancestors came from Scotland out to the USA. Edward’s great-great-grandfather came up from Pennsylvania on the Trail of the Black Walnut. He was one of three sons. He was a shoe-manufacturer from the Depression onwards. Walter was a strong Methodist and then went to the United Church. He was very anti-smoking and anti-drinking. Had very strong emotional connections with Cape Breton and Nova Scotia and brought back tartan from there. But he always “saw himself as Canadian”. His mother was Katherine Lee Dickson Gibson (Dutton, Ontario, 1898). Her father, a Reekie, came from Jedburgh, Scotland, to settle in Dutton in the 1880s. They became shop-keepers. Kenneth Galbraith was three years ahead of his mother at high-school. Edward talks of the “Scottishness” of Dutton: clean yards and white-framed buildings. Katherine had a strong love of her Scottish side and Edward got most of his knowledge of his Scottish heritage from her. She was a Presbyterian. Religion was a very big interest in the Gibson family. For example, there was great opposition when Edward’s sister told the family she was going to marry a Catholic. Marianne Louise Moore. Her father was Irish and is part of the Edward’s Estate and traced his ancestry back to captain Kidd. Her mother has a Scots-German background and was a Highland dancer. Her mother’s Scottish ancestors came from Fifeshire, moved to the USA in early 1800s, and then came to Canada. Her feelings of “Scottishness” comes from a feeling of never being beholden to anyone and always putting a strong public face on things, despite problems in the family etc. Keywords: Ontario; UBC; SFU; United Empire Loyalists; religion

: Interview of Ron MacLeod : Interview; March 15, 25 2004 (the voice volume/clarity is quite bad in the March 25 interview; one of the tapes at the end is distorted) John Ronald MacLeod (May 22 1924, Victoria). His brother, Ian, who worked at UBC, went out fishing in 1955 and never returned. He was married with two children. He was also a piper. His Gaelic name, which isn’t spelled out, means “fair-haired little Ronald”. He understands a little Gaelic; his uncle used to take Sunday school in Gaelic, and he says he could “understand the flow of it”. He went to Victoria Highschool and then King Edward in Vancouver. He quit High-school at Grade 12 and then went to work for the province newspaper, then worked at construction at Tofino airport. He went back to high school but then his father got cancer and he never went back after that. He then went to work at several logging camps. He then joined the navy in Victoria – the Fisherman’s Reserve. He then went to Gibson’s Logging Company. After this he became a watch-keeper for the Tofino Lifeboats. He also went to a School for ex-service people in Vancouver. After this he went to University for a couple of years and then went back to logging and fishing. He eventually became the Director-General of Pacific and Freshwater Fisheries. He received the Order of Canada for his lifetime’s work in the Fisheries. In 2000 he also received the Chancellor’s Distinguished Service Award for his services to Simon Fraser University. He remembers there being a very close Scottish community in Tofino. Although his uncles and so forth didn’t want to go back to Rossa, they kept on telling stories and reminiscing about the place. His uncle, Alec, who came out around 1911, was a big influence on his feelings of Scottishness. For example, he would sing songs and recite passages from the Bible in Gaelic. When John goes to Scotland, he has a feeling of “belonging”. When he enters/crosses the English-Scottish border, he feels “home”. His father was Murdo (Kylerrona, Rossa, 1880). He also gives his father’s name in Gaelic, but doesn’t spell it out; his full name charts his genealogy back into the Lairds of Rossa. On his father’s mother’s side was someone called Peggy Vantruck (“the widow of John of the Field”), whose parentage was Alastair More (“Donald the Blacksmith”). More’s grandfather was a Macbeth from Applecross and was approached by the Laird of Rossa at the Rossa Games to be his blacksmith and take the MacLeod name. John can trace the family name back to founder of the Macleod family/can around 1200: he was an illegitimate son of King Olaf the Black, was given lands in Lewis and married a woman called (?) who brought Dunvegan into the family. So John’s family is a mix of Gaelic and Norse. In fact, John participated in a DNA test with around 700 other Macleods from around the world and they found it to be around 30% of Norse origin. He suspects he has Norse blood in him. His father’s second brother, Ewan, left police force in Glasgow and came to Tofino first and became a policemen for the Native population, then went to Lilloet and Kamloops. This was the impetus for his father coming out to Canada. Murdo married his wife Julia in Victoria, 1919. He Joined a Pioneers Regiment in Victoria during the war, building bridges and roads on the front line; he was wounded. He then became Overseer of Fisheries in Tofino. He was a Gaelic speaker. He and his wife would speak English most of the time, but would speak Gaelic if they wanted to keep something from their children. His attitude to his children was that he brought them to Canada “to be Canadian”. His father felt a special affinity for the Native population; as a Highland Scot, he felt them as a fellow dispossessed people. John’s mother was Julia MacLeod (Island of Flatta, Rossa, 1882). He also gives mother’s full Gaelic name. Her last name, Callum, joins the two families together through Captain Malcolm MacLeod, who fought for the Chief of Rossa and Bonnie Prince Charlie in the ’45. He fought at Falkirk and Culloden. He also taught the famous piper John Mackay and helped Bonnie Prince Charlie escape Government capture after Culloden. MacLeod was eventually captured by Captain Fergusson of the British Navy and was sent to London to be tried for treason, but there was a lack of evidence to prosecute him. John Mackay’s son, Angus, put the piobaireachd into the modern musical form (He was also a composer: “Lament for Prince Charles”, “Colbeck’s Lament” and “Lady Doiley’s Salute”). She was educated in Rossa and then went to Australia as a nanny when she was around 31 before coming over to Vancouver and marrying her husband. John is asked to explain the piobaireachd: It merely means “act of piping”; also called ceol mor. It is the music of the Highlands, celebrating heroes, events, and small events. For John is has an “appeal and beauty” akin to Mozart. John also talks about Gaelic names: they usually depict a certain characteristic or geographical locale (e.g. “Ian the Stout”). He also talks about mythologies around Rossa, such as storms being caused by witches who filled an eggshell with water, shake it, and this would create a storm. John’s father never finished a boiled egg without breaking the bottom of the shell. Another myth his father brought with him was a belief in the power of the Rowantree to protect the home from evil spirits. He planted a Rowantree in 1931 at his house in Vancouver. His grandfather on his father’s side was Ian (Kylerrona, 1855). He lived in a “blackhouse” (no windows). It has 2 rooms and was occupied by himself, his wife, and 7 children (Isabella, John’s father, Ewan, James, Catherine, Alec, Marianne). There was no running water; it had a dirt floor; there was no toilet, not even outhouse. He died at 35. He had two plots of land and some crops and sheep. They depended mostly on fish (dried, salted fish). It was a “very tenuous survival”: thecCrops could rot, sometimes the fish would be barren, etc. The landowners were also “avaricious and ruthless”, buying up the land for sheep farming and games and driving the people off. Keywords: Victoria; bagpipes; fisheries; SFU; Gaelic; Kyleronna; Tofino

: Interview of Marjorie MacLean : Interview; 16 Feburary 2005 Marjorie Eleanor MacLean (North Vancouver, March 2, 1953). Marjorie is the second child of five children: Barbara, herself, Janet, Norman, Alexandra. She was the first person in her family to go to university in Canada, sixty years after the family had emigrated from Scotland. She played the chanter when she was a little girl, but her father didn't let her play the pipes because he thought women didn't have enough air in their lungs.... She went to three elementary schools: Lonsdale, Capilano, and Roberts Creek. After High-School, she went to UBC to study Art History and Sculpture. After leaving university, she went to Schedlt to learn how to make first nations baskets with first nations people. She then changed her career direction and started working as an artistic director for the Vancouver International Children’s Festival. Her job involved travelling extensively to many different places – China, Japan, Australia, African nations – in order to seek out performances. She also went to Scotland. She worked in this job for 23 years. In 2000 she left this work and looked to do something else. After taking a year off, she went to SFU for two semesters; she qualified as a Fine Arts teacher. When asked if she has any feelings of Scottishness, she says that she does. She got these feelings from her dad speaking about “the old country”. She talks about getting off at Heathrow airport and feeling no connection because they were not the people her father had told her about. That feeling crystalized her Canadian identity. She felt at home in Scotland, however, because a lot of people “looked like her father and grandfather” (high cheek-bones, round faces, etc). The people felt “familiar”. When she visited Scotland, she always went to the Edinburgh Festival – both for work and pleasure. She says that she has inherited a lot of unique virtues from her Scottish side: independence, honesty, hard working. Her father was Ian Norman MacLean (North Vancouver, June 10, 1917). He was the eldest of three children (the first born had died in the pandemic after WWI): Ian, Donald (never learned Gaelic nor the pipes; he was a “Canadian boy”; fought as a tail-gunner in the war), Joanne. He attended elementary school in North Vancouver. He went to Vancouver Tech and technical school in Calgary. He was a carpenter, built houses, and came in to business in the 1930s. He attended trade school, but he worked in mines in North-West BC until the outbreak of WWII. He then worked in the North Vancouver shipyards during the war and then became as a bus-driver. His first language was Gaelic; he didn't speak English until he went to school; the language in the home was Gaelic. He also sang in Gaelic. Marjorie says he was very independent, well-read (especially political tracts), and, politically, was a Socialist. In fact, he ran for office on the Sunshine Coast, but he didn’t win. Supposedly he didn’t spend enough money on the campaign to get his face recognized and his message out. He was a solo piper and won a few medals at various competitions. He was taught the pipes by Eric Thomson, a Scottish friend of his father, Donald. Her grandfather on her father’s side was Donald MacLean. He was born and raised in a croft on North Tolsta, Lewis. He came to Canada on the Cecelia in 1909 with his two brothers, John and Murdo. After WWI, Alex, another brother, came out. He was a Gaelic speaker. When he first came out, he lay tracks for the inter-urban tram system in Vancouver. He purchased some land at 19th and Grand Boulevard, built a house there, started a family, and stayed there until his death in 1978. The house has since been torn down. He was very active in Scottish community; he set up a Highland dancing competition in North Vancouver and ran it for many years. He also organized the North Vancouver Highland Games. He was also a piper and won many competitions. He also wrote poetry in Gaelic and music for the pipes. One of these poems, roughly translated by Margery, sounds very much like one of Robert Burns’ social commentaries: it was about a landlord and how he had taken everything away from his tenants, even the tufts of wool from the bushes. He was also involved in the Gaelic Society. He worked for BC Electric as a repair man (from the days of horse-drawn trams all the way through to the electric and diesel buses). Both he and his son, Ian, were very attached/loyal to “Lewismen”; they would follow in the footsteps of those who had come out before them and gather with other Lewis families. She talks of a place called New Eden in Quebec where many Lewismen would go as a first stop before heading on to other Lewis communities in Canada. Donald and his brothers went from New Eden to Northern Ontario to work in the mines. Before WWI, the Canadian Government were offering cheap train fairs for people to go out and start populating the West and fill the prairies. So Donald and his brothers came out to Vancouver because there was another Scottish Lewismen group and were received by that group in Vancouver. There was a great sense of Scottish hospitality; places would be set at the dinner-table for strangers looking for a meal. Marjorie’s grandmother, for example, would always receive people and treat them well. Donald was also a champion Delia grower. He also kept prizewinning goats at his home in Vancouver....He was of leftist persuasion politically; in fact, he was so enthusiastic, he signed his wife up for the Communist Party without her knowledge or consent.... He started out with the Communists and then switched to the CCF. He also worked as a campaign manager for a few people. They would go into the mills in North Vancouver and try to unionize the workers and convince them to join the CCF. They would get always run out by the mill owners. His house was always filled with people and political discussion. He was very much of the Scottish self-improving stock and he was not easy to get on with due to his “Highland temperament”. Marjorie believes this temperament comes from the Scottish trait of stubbornness and not being good at forgiving and forgetting. She has never liked this trait, thinks it is “poisonous” and has therefore tried to avoid it as best she could. Religion was not a big deal in family. But there is a story that a Presbyterian minister came round when Marjorie was very young. He saw them playing cards, was appalled, and so took the cards from the children and threw them in the fire. Her mother was Norma Francis Charlotte Vulliamy (Vancouver, 26 July, 1927). She went to Vancouver Art School. She is the eldest of children girls; her sister was called Mona. Her family came to England from Switzerland in 1732 to make clocks for Royal family. Her great-grandmother was sold some land in Manitoba before WWI. She was a widow and came out with her five children. Her son, Norma’s grandfather, ended up in Vancouver. Her grandmother on her mother’s side was from a family of United Empire Loyalists. She was born in Mexico. Her father, whose surname was Ross (Grimsby, Ontario) was sent to Mexico to work with on oil-exploration. He was murdered in Mexico. Marjorie’s grandmother then came out to Vancouver with some of her sisters. She met her husband in Vancouver. He was a Cambridge graduate and ran a small private school in Vancouver. Her grandmother on her father’s side was Annie MacLeod (North Tolsta, 1886). She worked as a housemaid in Stornaway while her husband was out in Canada; she waited 7 years for his return. She then emigrated to Canada and joined him. She sailed over and then got the train to Vancouver. They were married straight away. When her husband died, she was convinced he “visited” her in the house. She seemed to have “second-sight”, a very common superstitious circumstance among Highlanders. Marjorie also says she “saw” him in the house. Keywords: bagpipes; Gaelic; Lewis; Scottish communities; Unionism; United Empire Loyalists

: Interview of Ian Mason : Interview; 13 April 2005 Ian Maclean Mason (Glasgow, 22 April 1938). Ian was the oldest son of four children. He had two sisters, Mary and Margaret, and a brother, Johnnie. He went to school in England, Sheerness, which was then a naval base. But when his father was away on work, he would go to and live at one of his grandmothers at Sandbank in Dunoon or Clynder. He then went to Lochdonhead, Mull. Then he went to Dunoon Grammar School. From there he went to a boarding school in Kiel, Dumbarton, which at that time exclusively took on and, sometimes, paid for students from the Highlands and Islands. He remembers there being a lot of Gaelic speaking boys at Kiel. He dropped out of school to get a job in forestry to support his mother; but she wanted him back in school. So then he went to Oban for his final year, and then on to Glasgow University to study maths, physics, and chemistry. But he ended up graduating with a degree in geology. He met his wife, Janet Carmichael Henry (Oban, 12 June, 1941), although he knew her when they both lived in Mull. They were married in 1963. After graduating from Glasgow, Ian accepted a place at McMaster University in Canada to study for his ph.d. They offered him a better deal that any UK university. He remembers getting off the plane in Montreal during the summer and being struck with the oppressive nature of the heat. But he remembers the people being very helpful and friendly towards immigrants. In fact, he felt that being Scottish worked to his advantage; people seemed to like the Scots. While at McMaster he became a TA. He specialized in petrology – the study of the origin of rocks. In his spare time he played the accordion. He also started playing the pipes, but it didn't work out because his piping teacher would be in the pub most of the time.... After graduating he got a job with Cominco, who were looking to expand into nickel mining. His job was to look for places for nickel mines – south of Thomson, Manitoba, then in Quebec. The reason he didn’t go back home was because he couldn't get a job in Scotland. Furthermore, there were better opportunities in Canada back then. When he did return to Scotland to see friends and family, he had “mild” feelings of returning home. Ian’s father was John William Mason (January 12, 1899). He had one older sister. He was in the Royal Navy, but before that, he delivered yachts. He was also a gardener at Torosay Castle and Gardens in Mull for a couple of years. He also took over the inn at Craigmuir. His wife and children stayed on the Mull estate of David James after his death of appendicitis at the age of forty-four. He was a very popular man. He wrote plays for the local hall and acted in them. Ian’s mother was Mary Maclean (Isla, 1899). She was a Gaelic speaker and didn't learn to speak English until she was 12. Ian’s grandfather on his mother’s side was Neil Maclean. He drowned in WWI off coast of Ireland. He was a Gaelic speaker. Ian’s grandmother on his mother’s side was Anne Bell (Isla). She was also a Gaelic speaker. Ian’s grandfather on his father’s side was John Mason. He was an engineer. And his grandmother was Elizabeth Sutherland (Wick, 1850s). Keywords: Glasgow; McMaster; mining

: Interview of James Russell : Interview; 11 May 2004 Professor Jim (James) Russel (Glasgow, Scotland, 11 September, 1935). James went to Fulwell primary school in Roker, Sunderland, England, during the war. They were in England due to his father’s job as a civil servant working for the Ministry of Labour. He talks of having a duel tongue: Geordie and Scots. On coming back to Scotland, he went to the Royal Edinburgh High School and gained an interest in Classics. Although he says his whole family have been and continue to be Conservative in their political views, he considers himself to be “strongly Scottish” and talks of being influenced by a Scottish Nationalist teacher at High School, who taught Scottish history and literature (neither of which were on the syllabus at Scottish schools at the time). James therefore developed a sense of “cultural nationalism.” He left High School and went straight to Edinburgh University, where he took an Honours degree in Classics, which included Classical history and archaeology as well as Moral Philosophy. He talks about having a keen interest in “ruins and remains” from an early age. His great uncle, James Russel (b. 1820/30 d. 1890), a dyed-in-the-wool Liberal and one of the “self-improving member[s] [...] of the yeoman class of Scotland in the 19th century”, had been one of the first excavators of the Antonine Wall in Scotland. He also talks about student life at Edinburgh University, such as the reaction over the Suez Canal fiasco in 1956; this would prefigure the student demonstrations he encountered while a professor at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada. After leaving Edinburgh University, he taught Classics for a year at Trinity Academy in Edinburgh. He lived in Scotland until her was 24. He met his wife at Windsor Place, Church of Scotland, and married her on 19 August 1959, just before coming to Canada to teach and study for his Ph.D in Classics at Winnipeg. He then got a fellowship to study in Chicago for a year. He completed his Ph.D in 1965. He was invited to join the University of British Columbia as assistant professor and arrived in Vancouver on 19 August 1966. He got tenure in 1971. He talks about his experience of teaching during the “free thinking” movement that arrived at the end of the 1960s. Supposedly Deconstructionism was a nightmare for history teachers as students would start to question the veracity of dates, historical documents, catalogues, etc. He also talks about witnessing the students demonstrations against the Vietnam war, Government (in genereal), and even the structures of the University. His time at UBC was mainly spent excavating and compiling samples and information for publication of a 3rd century Roman city at Anemurium, Turkey, from 1970-1985. He retired in 1998. He was also elected President of the Vancouver branch of the Archaeological Institute of America – a post he held for 2 years. He is a member of the Fellows of Antiquities of Scotland.,br> Upon retiring he took up a position of lecturer of Classics at the Intercollegiate Center for Classical Studies in Rome for a year. When asked about whether or not he feels a “sense of belonging” towards Scotland, he says that he does; but when he is in Scotland, he feels that both he and the place are “different”; he has a whole other dimension to his perception from living in Canada. He does say that he “keeps up an interest” in Scottish politics through the UK papers and still has an interest in Scottish history. His father, William Russel (b. 17 December 1909, Longcroft, Stirlingshire), was a civil servant. He worked in both England and Scotland. He was heavily involved with the crofters in the Scottish Highlands. He was first destined to become a Minister. He was also very proficient in languages, especially Latin. He was also commissioned into the Army, destined to serve in India, although he somehow managed to escape this duty. He was the son of James Russel (b.1870), a foundry worker from Kilsythe – a short, wiry man; shrewd, athletic, friendly, quiet, and neat and tidy. His wife, the interviewer’s grandmother, Margaret Penman, was fairly unknown to James, although he does say that she might have suffered from Alzheimer’s disease. For example, she “behaved like a child” and “talked to the chickens”. In short, she “wasn’t normal”. His mother was called Elizabeth Russel. Her father, James’ grandfather, was a grocer in Borland. He blended and sold his own whiskey and advertised it at the local cinema. He also bought and sold horses from Glasgow. He has one brother. He was born in Newcastle. He went to the same High School as his brother in Edinburgh. Like his father, he became a civil servant and retired as second in command of British Customs. He lives in North Berwick, Scotland.

: Interview of Mary Morrison; 2005 Mary Morison (South Vancouver, April 10, 1921). Mary married Allister James Morison from Aberdeen, Scotland, in 1959/60, although he died not long after they were married. He moved to Canada in 1910; his father was a shoemaker on Commercial Drive and he worked for various drug companies. They met each other at the Loch Nagar Clansmen Social Group, Sons of Scotland, of which she was a camp Chief for one year. She used to teach Gaelic songs at this camp. Mary worked at Eatons for 15 years. They had had two sons: Murray Allister and Ian James. They don’t really keep in touch with their Scottish roots, although they do still sing snatches of Gaelic songs, which they used to perform at the concerts their mother organized. Mary’s interest in Gaelic songs came about in the 1930s when her parents tried to organize a Gaelic choir. She went to General Woolf’s School in Vancouver. She remembers having to sing “Maple Leaf Forever” during the raising of the flag every time they went into school. She then went to Queen Alexander’s School for 4 years before going to Grandview Commerce. At this stage her mum was working for Elmer Cannery. Mary went to work too on the bean belt; she remembers a lot of Scots and Italians working well together. She left school at 18 years old. Mary’s been to Scotland twice: once in 1979 (she wasn’t impressed; she had heard about all the costumes and festivities, etc, but she didn’t get a “warm feeling” from the people and the legendary Highland hospitality turned out a myth) and again to the Black Isle in 1997. Her father was Alexander Murray (North Dell, Lewis). He died when she was very young. He spoke Gaelic and wrote songs and poetry. He went out to South Africa to work as a stone mason before coming to Vancouver. Her mother was Joanna Campbell (Valtus, Uig, Isle of Lewis, 1890). Both she and her eldest daughter, Catherine, went out to work at Kerrisdale, then at Tulloch’s Cannery. She then went to work for Canadian Fish until she was 65 years old. Her grandfather on her mother’s side was Alexander Grant Campbell (Dunvegan/Harris?) He lied to get into the army at the age of 14. He joined up with the Cameron Highlanders and Seaforth Highlanders. He was stationed in Manchester. He was gassed in WWI and had a terrible cough afterwards. He worked on the BC street cars in Vancouver. He had one brother in Glasgow – John Campbell. He was a Gaelic speaker. Her grandmother on her mother’s side was Catherine Smoth (Uig). She came from a family of five. She loved Gaelic songs. She couldn’t speak English when she first came over to Canada. Keywords: Scottish societies; Gaelic; Aberdeen; Lewis

: Interview of Alma Lee : Interview; August 20 2004 Alma Stark Lee. Born: (Edinburgh, May 1940). She has two brothers: Graeme/Graham (Edinburgh; married with children and grandchildren; was an accountant and then a teacher of business admin at Napier College, Edinburgh); Gordon (just outside Aberdeen; married with children and grandchildren; sold pharmaceutical drugs) Father: Alan Graeme/Graham Stark (Balerno, January 10 1900). 2 brothers, 3 sisters (only remembers 2 sisters: Nelly and Jean). His father, Neil Stark, worked for the forestry and made violins. Alan was a bagpipe maker for John Glen. He also played them and taught other people to play. He also composed (for example, he composed a piece for Lady Vivian Younger of the Younger Brewery). He was involved with the Edinburgh City Police Pipe Band – he became pipe major. She remembers him piping at Waverley train station when her family boarded the train en-route to go to Australia; “it was like being in a movie”. She’s not too sure why her parents moved to Australia. It might have had something to do with her mother having a mid-life crisis. It might have also due to her father’s ailing health, as he suffered badly from the cold. He died in Australia. He was a self-taught Gaelic speaker. He probably got interested through his enthusiasm for the pipes and his work with the Highland Piobaireachd. He didn't compete, but played at functions, such as Burns Nights. He taught the pipes at Loretto and Fettes College, Edinburgh. Her dad took her every Friday at the library, so reading has been a big part of her life since a little girl. When she was a teen, she was obsessed with adventure WWII Stories. She also read a lot of the Classics. Education: She Sciennes School, Edinburgh. The headmistress, Mrs Henderson, was a little like “Miss Jean Broadie”. She then went to Boroughmuir Secondary. Her English teacher taught the Classics and gave her an interest in Scottish writers such as Stevenson, Scott, Burns, but didn’t teach more modern Scottish writers such as MacDiarmid, Gibbon, and Gunn. She didn’t go to university because he got married soon after high-school. Her (ex)husband, David Lee, whom she met in high-school, was a lighting engineer for the BBC and then Scottish television. Mother: Margaret Dick (“Peggy”) Robertson. 1 of 13 kids – 3rd youngest sister. Grandparents were dairy farmers. Alma went to live with these grandparents when war was on (1940-45). Her grandfather was an alcoholic up until his 40s. He was a great reader of Zane Gray novels. He drove a horse-drawn milk-cart. Why did they leave for Canada? Simple: her husband was bored! But it was also due to a sense of adventure. But they were worse off in Canada than in Scotland: her husband had to restart his career all over again. She was fascinated with Canada while in Scotland. Her father had a friend in Toronto and he would send a calendar every year. She really liked what she saw and it obviously stayed in her mind – big and beautiful scenery. Advertisements for job prospects in Canada in newspapers and posters also had a big impact. Furthermore, the Canadian government gave them an interest-free loan as an incentive to emigrate. They moved to Toronto first. Her first job was for the Olvery Underwood Corporation; she worked in sales and marketing. She then moved into the city and started working in the Arts. She got work in the theatre at the St Lawrence Centre for the Arts (now called the Hummingbird Centre). She stayed there for 2 years and then worked for the Ontario Arts Council in the choir administration department. She then thought about becoming a literary agent. She had a friend in the film business who was working with Margaret Atwood at the time. She managed to meet Atwood who gave her two points advice about getting a foot into the literary world: 1. Get job in publishing house; 2. Go to lots of parties. She then got a job through Atwood with an agent in New York working for Anansi Press, which represented up-and-coming writers such as Atwood, Graeme Gibson, and Michael Ondantjee. She was also founding executive director of the Writers Union (funded by membership dues) at a very exciting time in Canadian literature. But her marriage started to disintegrate at this point; there is not a lot of money starting out as a writer's agent. She was an agent for a couple of years and then went full-time at the Union. She negotiated a standard contract between writers and publishers. She then founded the Writer's Trust (mainly funded by private and corporate donations) – an organization that could take in donations for writers. Her first project was to create a series of 10 guides of Canadian literature for schools across Canada. She then went into the film business working for Universal as a liaison between Toronto and Los Angeles. However, She says this was “big mistake”. She found it full of self-indulgent, self-centred people. She was hired mainly due to her connections with writers. Having said that, she enjoyed looking at and developing scripts. She stayed in this job for 6 years. She then moved to Vancouver – she just wanted “vistas”! She wanted to be near the sea again; Lake Ontario “didn't cut it”. She arrived in 1984 with a view of getting a job at Expo, but she ended up staying in Powell River for a year. In Vancouver, she worked at National Book Week and then for the Federal Government as a project officer. She then worked as a manager at the Judith Marquis Dance Company before dreaming up the Vancouver International Writer's Festival and became Artistic Director. She is also on the BC Arts Council and The Granville Island Trust. She has received the Commemorative Medal from the Queen's Silver, Gold, and Jubilee. When asked about Scottish writers at the Festival, she talks about being impressed with Andrew Greig, an Orkney writer, who came to the Festival in 2003. Janice Galloway and Liz Lochead were also favourites. For example, she remembers loving one reading by Janice Galloway's in particular which was accompanied with piano music. Irvine Welsh was another one who came along that she liked. She also enjoyed having Ian Rankin and Val McDermid speak at the Festival. She has never had James Kelman or Alan Warner because, supposedly, they are “divas”: that is, they wanted to fly first class and stay in the nicest hotels, regardless of whether or not they (Alma and her Festival crew) could afford it. When talking about the future of Scottish Literature, she believes the “Trainspotting”, “urban-grit” edge of Scottish literature is passing, although there will still be a “dark-edge” to its literature, such as that evident in Rankin's novels. When asked about whether or not she has any feelings of Scottishness in Canada, she says that, because she was born, raised, and educated in Scotland, she does feel slightly “Scottish”. But she is also proud of being a Canadian. She has a “familiar” feeling when she returns to Scotland; she feels very strongly at home in Edinburgh – she has links with the Edinburgh Book Festival organizers and the Scottish Arts Council. Keywords: Edinburgh; bagpipes; arts; Toronto; Vancouver

: Interview of Laurie Anderson; Jan 11 2012 Laurie Hamilton Anderson (b.1947 in Glasgow) is the youngest of five children (three sisters and one brother). His father, David Vernon Anderson (b.1910/1911 (approx.) in Glasgow), was one of eight children. Although never in active service, David was in the army in the Second World War (his brother died in service). An employee of Scottish Legal Life Assurance Company, he also served as the superintendent of the first non-sectarian youth club in inner city Glasgow. He spent his evenings there in Maryhill teaching boxing and ballroom dancing. Laurie’s mother, Agnes (née) Robertson (b.1920s (approx.) in Glasgow), was one of six children and a social worker with impoverished Glaswegian families. Both of Laurie’s parents were politically involved, devoting their time to various social justice committees and causes. While Laurie’s father was also a devoted soccer coach (before a leg injury he had been a professional soccer player), his mother enjoyed reading Agatha Christie novels. With the exception of a few early ancestors from Ireland and England, the majority of Laurie’s family were born and raised in the Glasgow area. Laurie grew up in a house the royal borough of Rutherglen where he attended Calderwood Primary and Rutherglen Academy (at sixteen he dropped out of school to contribute to the family income). His family, albeit poor, was close to each other. His parents were musical and Sunday evening sing-a-longs were a regular occurrence (many of Laurie’s siblings are involved in the theatre). Every summer the Anderson children accompanied their parents to the one-week camp for inner-city children that they led and, later in the summer, the Anderson family would go on their own two-week beach holiday in Girvan. Laurie remembers going every summer for at least ten to eleven years. Rich Uncle John and Uncle Bill the electrician were Laurie’s two favourite relatives. At age fifteen (possibly sixteen) Laurie met his wife, Nancy Mason, at a Glaswegian dance hall. His first girlfriend, they married in December 1964 and left in May of the following year for Canada. With a two month-old baby and neither a job in Vancouver nor much money, Laurie describes them as “very immature…naïve…and innocent.” After six months in Vancouver, a homesick Nancy returned to Scotland; meanwhile, Laurie stayed another half-a-year to work at Scott Paper Ltd. and repay their loan. However, after five days back in Glasgow, Laurie returned to Canada House and within three months they had returned to Vancouver permanently (Laurie’s sister and her family later immigrated to the United States). Laurie resumed work at Scott Paper (for a total of ten years) and, with his factory salary, they were able to buy a house in Coquitlam. Laurie and Nancy had two sons together: Dean and Scott (both of whom now have children of their own). After thirteen years they divorced; both remarried and are still good friends (Laurie and his second wife later divorced). While leading tours at Scott Paper, Laurie realized his passion for teaching; he returned to school, finishing his high school education and then enrolling part time at Douglas College. In 1977 Laurie completed his teacher training; this led to a permanent full-time position with the Coquitlam School District. For thirteen years Laurie taught Grade Seven Math and English at Anmore Elementary and Westwood Elementary. After serving as a school principal, Laurie returned to SFU for his Masters and finally his PhD in Educational Leadership. In 1992 he became the district principal of curriculum for the Vancouver School District (later serving as the Director, Associate Superintendent, and Acting Superintendent). Eighteen years later, Laurie assumed his current position as the Executive Director of the SFU Vancouver campus. Laurie’s feelings of “Scottishness” revolve around his tendency towards being “judgemental and Scottish” and his sense of humour. He is very proud of his heritage, but is neither very involved in local Scottish events/groups nor makes an effort to fill his house and life with “Scottish things” (i.e. tartan, books, music). He believes that his family would vote in favour of an independent Scotland in the 2014 Referendum. When asked about his biggest satisfactions in life, Laurie listed his childhood, his children and grandchildren, and the opportunities (esp. jobs) given to him throughout his life.

: Interview of John Fraser; John Allen Fraser April 21, 2015; Second interview date unknown; May 1, 2015 Born Dec. 15, 1931, in Yokohama, Japan; moved to Canada at age 3. Baptised by an Anglican priest in Japan. Brother born in Canada in 1935. Interview begins abruptly, in the middle of a sentence. John describes speaking at a gathering of the Fraser clan. He describes Simon Fraser’s history in B.C. – he doesn’t think he is related, as his family is Presbyterian, and Simon Fraser was Roman Catholic. He wore his Seaforth kilt, as he doesn’t have a Fraser kilt. John knew Lord Lovat – he ran the British Commandos during the Second World War. John joined the Reserves one week after the Korean War was declared. His father had a strong view that depending solely on volunteers in War was wrong. He was encouraged, and so he joined the Cadet Corps to further his training. He attended 3 years of law school at the same time. They were trained with live ammunition – four of his friends were killed in demonstrations, with no investigation. Served in the Seaforth Highlanders, and served in the Canadian Brigade in Germany with the Highland Battalion in 1953. He visited the Fraser house in Beaufort Castle while on leave, and had lunch with the Lord and Lady. He received a letter from his father, explaining that his Battalion was due to be sent to Korea. In summer 1953, negotiations established a ceasefire in Korea, and so the unit was held back. John was a keen soldier. He returned to Canada and finished law school, and became involved with the Reserves again. He served as an honorary officer with the Seaforth Highlanders into 2010. He speaks about the concept of militarism, and how the views of those that served differ from the public views on War. John’s first ancestor (John Fraser) came to Canada from Scotland in 1759, to his knowledge. Possible connection to the start of the 78th Fraser Highlanders. When Prince Charlie came from France to Scotland in the 18th century, the Fraser clan was very much involved in the Battle of Culloden. This fighting spirit continued when Frasers came to Canada, with the Fraser Highlanders fighting in the Battle of the Plains of Abraham. He speaks about the contributions of Scots to Canada. John received the Order of Canada in 2001. Father: Clarence Fraser. Born & raised in Atlin, Yukon. Moved to Vancouver to enlist. All brothers served in the First World War, except one (Allen). He was denied entry, although he was the best shot in the family. They grew up hunting, trapping, and running dog teams. For Allen, living in Vancouver during the War and walking down the street without a uniform was difficult. John’s father learned to speak some Japanese during his time there selling BC lumber (7 or 8 years). The family lived in Powell River for a time, where he also sold lumber. Horace, another brother, became a well-known land surveyor, and served in the Seaforth Highlanders. He was badly injured and taken out of action for a time. Lyle, served in the PPCLI; also wounded in action at one time, but managed to round up fellow soldiers. He received a military medal. Paternal Grandfather: John Allen Fraser. Born in Canada. Owned a general store in Fort William (now Thunder Bay), Ontario, and worked in the fur trade. Had a contract with the company building the Canadian Pacific Railway to supply ties. He worked himself across the country this way and ended up in Vancouver. The railway opened up shipping from Asia. Gold was discovered in the Yukon, and John couldn’t resist; he went north, eventually becoming a government agent, gold commissioner, and local magistrate in Atlin, Yukon. A cousin owns a copy of his diary. Mother: Laudie Robinson. Her fiancée was severely injured during the First World War, and passed from the flu upon his return in 1919. Family came from West Side of Ireland to Ontario, Canada in 1830 as farmers. Father named John, mother named Mary. She once joked with John, “I’ve heard enough of your Highland heritage; you’re over 50% Irish, and that’s the problem”. She went back to visit family in Ireland with her husband and John. They went to visit her Uncle John. Met John’s father in Tokyo, Japan, on a trip with her cousin around 1929. Married in Ontario. John was on the rugby team at Prince of Wales High School. He continued to play rugby into his 30’s, when the workload from his law firm took priority. John was recommended to a law firm with Gregory Grant & Cox in Victoria, BC. He joined up with the Seaforth Highlanders again in while there. He had planned to marry a young woman who married another man, and so he felt the need to relocate from Victoria. A partner of the firm was taking over a new law firm in Powell River, BC, and John jumped at the chance. He wanted to work in the courtroom more than anything, and did defence work, which impressed the people at Ladner Downs Law Firm. He worked there for a long time. Wife: Family name Finley. Family came to Canada in 1850. John has received many accolades: He was a cabinet minister in the Clark and Mulroney governments, earning him the Order of Canada & Order of BC; Canadian Forces decoration, Queens Council, and several honourary law degrees. Won the Vimy Award for outstanding service to the Canadian military. Politics: Father identified as a conservative Liberal, and didn’t have any respect for Mackenzie King due to his lack of military service. In Vancouver, if you were interested in politics and wanted to advance your career, you were expected to become a Liberal. John became involved with the Progressive Conservative Party in his first year at UBC, sitting as a Conservative in the “mock parliament” hosted by the School, debating Canada’s presence in Germany. He felt service in politics was “the patriotic thing to do”. In 1968, he ran as a Member of Parliament for Vancouver South in the year of the “Trudeau sweep”. He stayed active after this run, Joe Clark became leader of the Conservative party. John ran again for Vancouver South, against Gordon Gibson. The Speaker was appointed by the Prime Minister. At the best of times, they would talk to the leader of the opposition for consultation, but not always. John was the first elected Speaker of the House of Commons, and then later ran as Speaker. The workload increased by 60% when he was Speaker. John worked very hard to learn French and connect with French-Canadians. There was a large German and Sikh community in his area. He encouraged people to approach him over issues. Military support, international trade, and environmentalism were his main concerns. He recalls some eventful moments in the House of Commons, including challenging Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau during Question Period, which prompted Trudeau to point at John and say, “I’ll see you outside”. John tried to show respect for anyone who the Canadian people elected. If there’s no acceptance and respect between both sides of the House of Commons, John says it’s impossible for a Speaker to “control the House”. In John’s time, climate change was not as much of a discussion. He was at a cabinet meeting with the Minister of Fisheries when global warming was brought up, and Mulroney asked John to give a briefing on the topic. He said it was his conviction that most scientific research indicates we are collectively issuing greenhouse gas emissions at a dangerous rate, impacting the climate. At the time, reports were saying the planet was headed for another Ice Age. Some scientists argued that carbon was necessary for growth. It is still an issue that needs to be addressed to this day, as misinformation is still around. There is science which is difficult to argue with. He is a passionate fly-fisher and has strong feelings about the environment. He spent lots of time outdoors as a child. Was a member of the British Columbia Steelhead Association. John notes the difference between Conservative politics in Canada and the USA. He discusses the idea of a “Red Tory” (a left-leaning conservative). He points out that not all Conservatives are reformists. John became a Boy Scout, and started attending Anglican Church services at St. Mary’s because of that. He recalls a service in which a minister taught acceptance of the Jewish faith. There was anti-Semitism in Vancouver at the time; a major golf course would not allow Jewish people to play. John tells a story of rumours flying around the neighbourhood after his parents let a Jewish family friend stay the night. John discusses the unification of the Canadian Armed Forces under Trudeau. He discusses his experiences in the military, and describes how the soldiers who trained him were almost “parental”. He is critical of the changes made during unification, such as a suggestion of removing rank and special uniforms, which he felt collapsed morale. He discusses Canada’s military history at length. He was part of the Cadet Corps at Point Grey Junior High School. John had a friend as a child, Joan Patterson, who tracked him down while he was in training at Camp Borden. She asked him to come visit in Toronto, and they got along famously, which made his time in Ontario more bearable. He kept in touch with her for years after. He discusses training exercises he experienced.

: Interview of James Barrie : Interview; 22 March 2005 James Allan Barrie (Vancouver, Canada, 28 March, 1941). James is the oldest of three children; his two sisters are Elaine and Jean. Although he was born in Vancouver, he lived in New Zealand for 27 years. His father started to teach him piping around the age of five. At the age of seven he got his first set of Macdougall pipes – a set that was owned by King Edward VII when he was Prince of Wales. The story goes that a man named Campbell, who was Queen Victoria's piper, was given these pipes by Edward VII when he left the Royal family. He emigrated to Vancouver and, for whatever reason, the pipes ended up in pawn shop in Vancouver. James’ father saw them and bought them for $100. James played these for a while before giving them to a shop in Wellington for display when the Queen came to visit; in return, he got a brand new set of Henderson pipes. They were later auctioned in London for £1750. He went to Waitaki Boys School, Omaru, and played drums for the Brass Band. After school, he worked for the telegraph department in order to learn telegraphy and morse code because he wanted to work at sea. He formed a rock band at eighteen (“The Tornadoes” and “Jay Bee Combo”). He took up the pipes again and started competing in New Zealand. He then moved to Wanganui, became a policeman, and played for the Wanganui Police Pipe Band; he stayed in this employment for seven years. They would be called on to play at the police graduation ceremonies in Wellington. After this he became a traffic-policeman for three years. Although he’d left the Pipe Band, he continued playing himself. He was asked to be a guest piper for Innes Tartan on their world tour; he learnt their tunes and went on the road with them. He was married in New Zealand to a woman named Janice; they had children together, but later divorced. He remarried in Scotland to a woman named Cecil. His son, Glenn, also plays the pipes, although his other son, Cameron, had no interest in the pipes. It was after his traffic job that he emigrated to Canada in the mid 1970s; he was urged by his Dad to go there instead of Scotland because there were more opportunities. One of his Dad's Piobaireachd songs was played by SFU pipe band (doesn’t specify which one). He carried on teaching pipes into retirement and became a recording engineer. When he first went to Scotland 1972, he had a feeling of connection, especially towards the traditional Scottish music (accordion and fiddle) and also due to the fact that his dad was from there. In fact, he says that he “felt that he was coming home”. He remembers meeting the musician Blair Douglas in a pub in Skye in the early 2000s and he was urged to play the pipes alongside a young “tinker” accordion player; it is obviously one of his fondest memories of Scotland. He says he wishes he'd gone to Scotland earlier, lived there, and taken a more competitive stance in the world of piping. He's even thought about going to live in Scotland over the past few years. The lifestyle appeals to him and so does the idea of living in Skye. James plays “John Mackenzie's Fancy” at the end of the tape. John Mackenzie was from Inverness. He was a friend of his. He played in the Waitaki Police Pipe Band with him. John “fancied” the tune James played, so James dedicated it to him and called it “John Mackenzie's Fancy”. He also plays one of his dad’s tunes called “Palmerston North Square”. This song came to his dad when he was walking around Palmerston Square, New Zealand, one evening. His father was William MacLellen Barrie (Rothsey, Isle of Bute, December 1, 1910). He was a middle-child in a family of 8. As a child in Scotland, he was taught the pipes by a man called MacDougall Gillies; his father wanted him to learn from the best. When Gillies died, he carried on with a man named Robert Reid. He wrote some music, “A Lament for Robert Reid”, when Robert passed away. He also boxed professionally in Scotland for at least two years when he was eighteen. He also worked as a piper and exhibition boxer on the boats between Southampton and New York in the late 1920s/early 30s. He represented Scotland as a piper in World Fair in San Francisco in 1939, and that's how he came to Canada. The story goes that he met some Highlanders from Canada at the Fair and went up to Powell River with them and played in the Powell River band for 30 years. He married his wife, who he met in Vancouver, in 1940. He joined the Canadian army as a drill instructor and Pipe Major at Vernon. He then went to work as a butcher in Vancouver. In the mid 1950s he and his family moved to New Zealand where he was to teach the pipes and train butchers. James was twelve when they emigrated. His father spoke a little Gaelic. He was always humming pipe tunes and was a great walker. His grandfather on his father’s side (Feb 13 late 1870s?) was in the butcher business. He might have been the first-cousin of the writer, James Barrie. He was also a piper, but played only for his own amusement. His mother was Elsie Lillian Allan (Macrorie, Saskatchewan, Nov 19, 1917). Her father, James’ grandfather, John Urquhart Allan (Aberdeen), came from Scotland and settled in Saskatchewan as was the town’s undertaker, sheriff, as well as general-store owner. They travelled by wagon from the East Coast. They came out to Vancouver (around 1936). Keywords: New Zealand; bagpipes

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