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Linnea Cudmore - 2014-11-27 - SFU Surrey
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Linnea Cudmore - 2014-11-27 - SFU Surrey
Simon Fraser University Library
Holly Hendrigan, Interviewer |
SFU Library Oral Histories |
Tech BC Memory Project
Holly Hendrigan, Interviewer |
SFU Library Oral Histories | Tech BC Memory Project
Holly Hendrigan: This is Holly Hendrigan of the TechBC Memory Project. Today is
November 27, 2014 and I am interviewing Linnea Cudmore, who is a Systems Consultant at SFU Surrey. We are having a face-to-face conversation in my office. Hi Linnea, I am here to ask you some questions about your experience at the Technical University of British Columbia, which offered classes in Surrey between 1999 and 2002. For this project, I am most interested in hearing your stories of the institution before TechBC’s transition to SFU but I will ask questions about the transition and TechBC’s legacy as well. So first of all, what year did you begin working at TechBC?Linnea Cudmore: I believe it was the year 2000. I can’t remember what month
exactly it was but I was there for a couple years before the transition happened to SFU.Hendrigan: Right, and where did you work before?
Linnea Cudmore: Before that I was at Radarsat International. It was a company that was owned by MacDonald Dettwiler-
1:00Hendrigan: Oh ok.
Linnea Cudmore: So in, radar satellite technology imaging.
Hendrigan: Right, and, what appealed to you about the, the TechBC posting or is
that how you--is that how you came to work there?Linnea Cudmore: I saw the posting; it looked interesting. A technical university
in Surrey. I live, grew up in Surrey; we never really had too many options for university in Surrey so it piqued my interest-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: Just right there and I was also impressed with the, the way they
actually conducted the interviews as well. It was just--they were efficient and got it done and made their decisions. And it was--it was very--I thought very well run.Hendrigan:And what was the, what was the job title that you had?
Linnea Cudmore: At that time, I was applying for a database administration type
2:00of job.Hendrigan: Ok.
Linnea Cudmore: So financial data, backup data, just you know, data management.
Hendrigan: Right. Now when you say “they” during the interview, can you
remember who that was?Linnea Cudmore: There was six people around the table, I don’t remember
everybody who was there but I remember Phil Cramer was there, and Ian Franks I believe his name was there; there was the HR Director, I’m trying to remember his name at the time, and I can’t. And then there was three other people I can’t quite remember. I think there was someone from Student Services and yeah, I can’t remember the other two.Hendrigan: Ok, so a wide range then.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah they did-- just across the board.
Hendrigan: And what department did you work in?
Linnea Cudmore: So I was in the, the technical department, the IT-
Hendrigan: Ok.
Linnea Cudmore: Department.
Hendrigan: And what were the main duties of your job?
Linnea Cudmore: Basically anything to do with data, so I had the student systems
3:00application. Everything that was separate from IT, was its own department. The learn--they called it learning (they went through a few different names) but so the student learning system was in a different department. They were developing that at the time, and programming it and getting it up and running and all that type of stuff. The IT department: we were more administration systems, so the financial systems--Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: The data storage systems; the backup systems. The--anything to
do with the desktop computers of supporting people-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: Was our department.
Hendrigan: Right. So you weren’t involved in the learning management system?
Linnea Cudmore: Those two departments were separate. Learning management was I
think they called it ET and L at one point-Hendrigan: Right. Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: And then there was us.
Hendrigan: Ok. And I’m just curious what kind of training did you have that
kind of got you the skills you needed for that job? 4:00Linnea Cudmore: I was working with another company in their IT department and
before that I took a diploma program in technology.Hendrigan: Right. From?
Linnea Cudmore: So. From Kwantlen University-
Hendrigan: Ok.
Linnea Cudmore: College, yep.
Hendrigan: Yep. All Surrey, Surrey based-
Linnea Cudmore: I’m a Surrey girl. [laughs]
Hendrigan: [laughs] Now which-
Linnea Cudmore: South Surrey girl, let’s just clarify. [laughs]
Hendrigan: Which campus locations did you work in? At TechBC, which campus?
Linnea Cudmore: Well I, when we started, TechBC was split off into two locations
so we had the admin office over by Guildford Mall-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: It was across the street from there, but our labs were actually
physically in the Surrey Place Mall-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: Now called Central City. And it was in behind--it was kind of a
weird location. You wouldn’t even know there was a university-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: [laughs] There. Because it was so hidden, but I primarily was
5:00over at the Guildford admin offices.Hendrigan: Oh ok.
Linnea Cudmore: Yes.
Hendrigan: Ok. And what was it like working in those temporary spaces?
Linnea Cudmore: Well the admin offices were offices-
Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: You know, so it wouldn’t seem very temporary-
Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: Right. Because you were just--it was like your normal day of
work, right? You went to an office and whatever. The students’ spaces were definitely a little more different because you had to go in behind the mall, and into these back rooms and back hallways-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: To get into the classrooms and so, for a general day-to-day, it
was just a normal working environment. From the students’ point of view, it was probably a little different: walking through a mall to get to a university.Hendrigan: Yep, yes. [05:48] Can you provide a snapshot or description of North
Surrey at that time?Linnea Cudmore: Well, growing up in Surrey, Surrey’s always just been Surrey.
6:00You know, you have your Guildford Mall, which was the bigger mall; Surrey Place Mall ,which was the lesser of the two desirable locations if you were going shopping-Hendrigan: Right. What kind of stores were in Surrey Place Mall at the time?
Linnea Cudmore: In 2002, oh my goodness, I can’t even remember. There was a
Buy-Low Foods at one end of the mall, I remember that. There was, I believe it was Zellers in the other end of the mall and where the T and T market currently is, now in 2014. It used to be the Hudson Bay Company but it was like their outlet-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: You know, so it was more--the crappy stuff.
Hendrigan: Yeah. [laughs] Linnea Cudmore: [laughs] That you’d find. So in
7:00terms of shopping within the mall it wasn’t that great.Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: You know, Guildford Mall was--being at the admin offices, was
definitely the better option I felt, for shopping.Hendrigan: Right. And did, did you ever actually work in what they BetaSpace
which is-Linnea Cudmore: Mm-hmm.
Hendrigan: So you, you did eventually move there.
Linnea Cudmore: Yes, so I worked at the locations over at Guildford Mall and
then when BetaSpace was constructed, we all moved-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: From those admin offices over to the new space which they called BetaSpace.
Hendrigan: Right, right. Did you, how did you feel outside campus? As a Surrey
girl maybe you were completely careful; was there any night time or-Linnea Cudmore: During the day I was totally fine with it, I mean, I remember
being a young girl walking around this area and getting little, you know, “cat calls”Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: [laughs] From people on the street but as I got older, those diminished.
Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: [laughs] So, I mean I felt pretty ok but I mean, I mostly drove
8:00to work. I didn’t take transit-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: I didn’t have to worry about walking the streets around here
very much. So, and I mostly stuck with being in the mall as well. I didn’t--we didn’t go out a lot to other places but, I mean it wasn’t the most desirable location for sure, in Surrey, and it still is not the most desirable location in Surrey-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: You know, but they’re trying to work on that and every city
has its issues.Hendrigan: Yep. Alright, so enough about Surrey. Within the systems department,
how many people worked there?Linnea Cudmore: Over at the admin offices, let me think, there was, I believe
there was six full time tech staff members-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: And then there was our manager, Ian Franks.
Hendrigan: Ok. And think back to what were common systems workplace practices
9:00during that time and was TechBC doing anything different?Linnea Cudmore: I wouldn’t say different, I would say they were small enough
though, to change more quickly. So when there was problems or when there was things they wanted to do, because you were so small, you could just do it-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: And it wasn’t as-- noticing now with a bigger institution, I
find the bigger it is, the more issues there are, the less flexibility there is. So looking back at TechBC, I really admire their--the size and the way they were at that time, and the flexibility they had in what they were doing. And, because it was new, it was changing and it was evolving and, things were in flux-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: So, it was, it’s different than it is now-
10:00Hendrigan: Yes.
Linnea Cudmore: For sure.
Hendrigan: Well, we’ll, we’ll get a bit to that a bit later. Did the school
run its own servers and website?Linnea Cudmore: Yes.
Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah, we had all our own servers and I was actually in the
server room one time when we had the earthquake, in the-Hendrigan: And here it is-
Linnea Cudmore: Right, yes, that was a scary moment-
Hendrigan: Yes.
Linnea Cudmore: Those things were shaking and I was in that room. [laughs]
Hendrigan: Really?
Linnea Cudmore: Yes. It was not the most solidly built-
Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: Admin offices, [laughs] I don’t think.
Hendrigan: Yeah, yeah. I think I remember that because I was, I was working at
Vancouver Public at the time and things started shaking but-- they shook out here in Surrey as well-Linnea Cudmore: Yeah, yeah, and I was in the server room I kind of went to the
door, opened up the door going, "What is going on?"Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: Things are moving but yeah, nothing fell over thank goodness.
Hendrigan: Yeah, and that was one that --it hit Seattle really hard right?
11:00Linnea Cudmore: Mm-hmm.
Hendrigan: Right. Yep. And can you comment on the relationships between the
systems staff and faculty and, sorry, systems staff, and faculty and administration?Linnea Cudmore: I’m trying to remember what it was like because again, we had
two locations-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: And we were quite small at the beginning, I think. I mean,
relations were always good. Especially when we moved to BetaSpace, we were all in one location, it was all very open-- this open concept--we were open to--. I personally thought the relationships between "us and them," (if you want to call it "us and them") were good.Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah. I had no, no qualms. We all helped each other out, yep.
Hendrigan: Did TechBC’s pedagogical approaches affect how the systems
12:00department ran? In this interactions with students? I guess I’m referring-TechBC was very student centred, and did that come across at all in this--with the systems-Linnea Cudmore: Well again there were two different systems, so-
Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: The student side really wasn’t us-
Hendrigan: Right, right.
Linnea Cudmore: Versus, you know, what we did. So I didn’t really deal with
the student systems, so I don’t know if I could really answer that question-Hendrigan: Right, did you have much contact with students?
Linnea Cudmore: We, well we did because we ran the labs-
Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: So it was more like the lab software--the hardware setup: what
was there and available for them. It was that side of the student interaction versus their student online learning courses and information that was in those systems-Hendrigan: Right, right.
13:00Linnea Cudmore: So, I mean we had a lot of students who wanted to do crazy and
wild things-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: So, with open houses or class projects, they’d be coming to us
and asking, Can we rip apart this lab to do this? And sometimes it was Yes, and as we got bigger, and just it was more--the equipment was more just in constant use-Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: We couldn’t be as flexible-
Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: In those, so we eventually got to the point where we had to say,
We will not, [laughs] destroy any labs for your student projects, but let’s try to figure out how we could do other things or help you out with this. So, I know they were working with 3D rendering software and so a lot of times you needed multiple computers to kind of get all the CPU power to run. So at one point I know we tried putting together a little render farm for them so they 14:00could do that and it wasn’t like people taping signs on six computers saying: “In use, in use and in use, in use, in use" so-Hendrigan: Right, that’s cool. Did the relationships between system staff and
students change after TechBC became SFU?Linnea Cudmore: Well, yes and no, I mean, the students didn’t know what was
going to happen to them, they didn’t know what was going to happen to their degrees-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: So we lost--quite a few students actually went up to Burnaby
Mountain; there was three main programs, right. And so there was the management portion of the program that I believe just got amalgamated into one of the SFU programs and so that whole range of students basically were gone: they were up in Burnaby. But I think, I think we tried to maintain status quo. I mean once 15:00the decisions were made-- you’d have to talk to students, but I don’t think their education changed all that much-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: I think from the staff and faculty portion part of view, it was
a lot more change than maybe for the students but, that’s coming from me, who was a staff member-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: Not a student right so. I may be biased on that answer.
Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: But I know it was stressful for the students, but once it was in
place and they knew they were going to get a degree, then at least they knew. I know a lot--some of them--were mad because, they didn’t sign up (I know I remember talking to some students) and they didn’t sign up for an SFU degree. If they wanted an SFU degree they would have signed up to SFU. They had signed up for this alternative, but did everybody feel that way? I don't know.Hendrigan: Right. Right. Right. Ok. So I’m a librarian, I have to ask just a
16:00couple librarian questions. What do you remember about the library? I think it was also known as The Portal.Linnea Cudmore: Well, yes it was and it was in the basement-
Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: And that’s where my office was too-
Hendrigan: Oh ok.
Linnea Cudmore: The library and the IT service--part of the IT service
department was all down in the basement, and it was, it was interesting. I’m trying to think, because, prior to the library moving downstairs, I’m trying to think where they even were. Because at one point I remember that basement space being quite a bit of us IT staff people, when we first moved in, but then at some point that space where the IT department was located, the library moved into. And so then, there was about four or five of our staff members who had to 17:00move upstairs and then the ET and L (or the learning online people) were also down there. And they moved upstairs, and the library moved in downstairs so that they had the basement space. And then there was a door, and then on the other side of the door was kind of a lunch room area. And then there was one office down there, which hosted--it was either three or four of us in this one little room, no windows, no natural light. I mean this was a basement, this was a bunker and then across the hall was the server room. So the ones who managed servers: we stayed down there in the basement so we had access to the servers and the server rooms and stuff, but everybody else had moved upstairs. And then later the library grew, so big that they also wanted our space, so that eventually, we moved upstairs as well, and then they took over our space. Can’t remember if they took over the lunch room area as well but yeah, so then 18:00we moved upstairs and the library had that whole space but it was dark. It was a dark [laughs] hole in the ground-Hendrigan: [laughs]
Linnea Cudmore: Down there-
Hendrigan: [laughs]
Linnea Cudmore: It was not the most lovely place to work.
Hendrigan: Right, so you were happy to move upstairs.
Linnea Cudmore: I was happy to move upstairs, at least. There was still no
natural light, but we were in an old Zellers location and so it had really tall ceilings at least. The ceilings were all open and you could see the wires and the everything but at least it was high, [laughs] and it was more open and airy and yep, not dark and dank and the lunchroom right next to--often smelly.Hendrigan: Yeah. [laughs] Can you describe the, the TechBC culture?
Linnea Cudmore: The TechBC culture: they wanted to be different; they wanted to
be innovative; they wanted to be new; they wanted to be fresh. They didn’t want to be what an institute-- a university looked like at that time. They were 19:00trying to do things different, with the way students were learning and, that’s what I remember about the culture. Just trying to be fresh and new and innovative-Hendrigan: Right, start-up.
Linnea Cudmore: Yep, start-up.
Hendrigan: And who were some of the key players who contributed to the TechBC culture?
Linnea Cudmore: Well definitely the President, right, there was Bernie
[Sheehan,] and then later Jean. Unfortunately Jean came in at a very bad time; I can’t remember how long it was before all the turmoil started, with the government basically trying to shut us down. But I remember Jane Fee was up there; there was Tim Rahilly in Student Services which the students just adored and loved. I remember him just being--he really contributed to the student 20:00environment and the way he interacted with the students was just amazing. Everybody loved him; even the staff loved him and yeah he was pretty amazing. He drove that whole student culture quite dramatically.Hendrigan: How did he do that?
Linnea Cudmore: Well I wasn’t involved in the students and I don’t know what
he did behind the scenes and stuff but he just tried to be fun-Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: They tried to do things different. He really was in there with
the students, it wasn’t just "Come to office, sit down and leave." He tried to make events fun, and even the way they tried to make BetaSpace: they tried to make it fun. It wasn’t just some chairs with a table; they wanted to have beach umbrellas and bean bag chairs and, and just even the whole culture and the way the furniture was supposed to be flexible and movable and never stationary 21:00and "this is the way it was going to be." And same with the classrooms: it was all movable tables and chairs. One silly thing I thought they did, way back when, again but they wanted this open environment so they made the classroom walls not go up to the ceiling. That was a bad mistake [laughs] because you had students doing these projects which were video and sound and, and multimedia and their projects were loud-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: So here you have students presenting these things to the class
and then the math class going on next door going, “It’s too loud, it’s too loud, it’s too loud, turn it down.” So that quickly was attempted to be rectified but putting the walls higher-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: But again, it was always meant to be a temporary space so
everything was-- where the drywall was, you saw where the screws were and where 22:00the seams were; they didn’t bother mudding and taping-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: Because it was never--you saw the cables running in the
ceilings: it was all very open so in some ways it was great; in other ways not so great, but they learned [laughs] from it I’m sure, right?Hendrigan: Right, right.
Linnea Cudmore: And come up with better ideas [laughs] from your mistakes.
Hendrigan: Well were there any particular, particularly interesting characters
among your colleagues?Linnea Cudmore: Of course there always is, I’m trying to think of names, and
me being in the IT department, and we, we did work quite closely with ET and L but I knew there was one guy down there, and I could always tell how stressed he was, by the condition of his hair- Hendrigan: Right.Linnea Cudmore: That day. You know, dealing with data and student data and
things have to run--. You knew things were not running when his hair was 23:00standing on end because he’d constantly be putting his hands through his hair and pulling his hair out-Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: So, the more it was-
Hendrigan: [laughs]
Linnea Cudmore: Standing up and out, you knew that it was--he was having more
stressful of a day. So he was a character. And then there was another guy in IT same thing, like, [laughs] I remember how one of my first days working at TechBC-- this was back in the space, the old space. I was walking down--they were introducing to me to people and I was getting familiarized with the area and the people and the zone. But I remember walking to one area and there was a guy literally shouting and yelling and I went back to my office and I’m like, "There’s a guy shouting down there, like what?" And they basically told me, yeah, that’s, that’s Trevor; just ignore him. He often yells at himself to try to figure [laughs] things out. It was very strange, so yeah, they definitely 24:00had some characters, especially coming from IT. But they are also very sweet people, I remember some of the faculty members and just thinking how wonderful they were and very kind, very sweet; cared about their students, wanted them to learn. And yeah, I thought everybody tried to be very open. And being in the university now for a while, you don’t-- I realize you don’t always get that. In general, you don’t get that, I guess, with everybody being so nice. But everybody wanted to be there. It was a start-up, they didn’t have to be there-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: Right?
Hendrigan: And you were all on contract right? Like you, there was no union and
there was-Linnea Cudmore: No union but I was full time; I wasn’t a contract employee-
Hendrigan: Mm, ok.
Linnea Cudmore: No, I was a full time, yep.
Hendrigan: Right. And how much socializing did staff do among themselves?
25:00Linnea Cudmore: Trying to think, I mean we had the staff parties.
Hendrigan: Where were they held?
Linnea Cudmore: When, when Jean came on, I remember there was a couple hosted in
his home-Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah, he had his parties-
Hendrigan: Where did he live?
Linnea Cudmore: He was down at--he was in Surrey as well. He was just off, just
south of the #10, on the bluff overlooking the plains, like the-Hendrigan: Panorama Ridge side.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah.
Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: But on the, the nicer side of Panorama Ridge. Newton, right now,
is going through a bit of turmoil and known as not such a nice area of Surrey, anymore but he was in the area where they had the million plus dollar homes. I was on the other side [laughs] of the #10, that wasn’t quite so nice. [laughs] But yeah, he had a beautiful home and he opened it up to the Christmas parties 26:00and I remembered his wife being really into orchids-Hendrigan: Oh.
Linnea Cudmore: And had orchids all over her kitchen and they were just
beautiful. And they had some beautiful pieces of artwork too in their home. Yeah, very nice to open up their home for us, for those type of parties.Hendrigan: Mm-hmm. Can you talk about some of the bigger challenges about
working at TechBC?Linnea Cudmore: Well being a start-up, one of the challenges was, with
everybody, was money. You have to--the well is not endless so you have to make smart decisions with what you’re doing and because you don’t have a lot of those things already in place, you have to develop them and you need to work with them. I think the same challenges anybody goes through, really, but I remember them looking at archival software for data and that was going to be a 27:00huge cost but they wanted to do it right from the start, and get it right. But then, that project was started shortly before everything started to happen, so it never went through to fruition. But being small you have to do everything. In terms of the--as a IT person--you have to be all, know all, because you just don’t have the staff members--everybody be specialized in their own field, so you had to learn. So I remember I came on and I was quickly given the data, backup software. Again they wanted to do it right to begin with so they bought a very large complicated backup software system which nobody really knew, nobody had the training on and I’m trying to learn this and I quickly found out there 28:00was no backups getting done because the consultant --they had to come in to set this whole thing up, did something wrong and so they were putting tapes in and out every day. [laughs] There was nothing on those tapes-Hendrigan: Oh boy.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah. So, yeah, so that was a challenge right: getting the
training; you know, you had these systems but no one really knew-- weren’t experts in actually using them or running them-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: And me the same, I had to--I wasn’t an expert in this system;
I was just trying to figure it out and so we ended up getting a consultant in who knew [laughs] the system, and I think at the end of day it was a period that was someplace it shouldn’t have been-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: And that was it, but that took about two days and two thousand
dollars worth of consulting time to find out. 29:00Hendrigan: Find that little bit of code.
Linnea Cudmore: Little piece of code that was just wrong. So yeah.
Hendrigan: Wow. So what were the early signs that the university’s days as a
stand-alone institution were numbered?Linnea Cudmore: The election.
Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: You, you know, it, people were worried because the NDP had been
in for so long and they knew. I mean, we all knew TechBC was an NDP thing so when the election came, people were worried, already. As soon as the Liberals got in, it was kind of like, What’s going to happen-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: I mean, you hope for the best, and I’m not one to be
pessimistic but always hope for the best. [laughs] So yeah, it was yeah that election. I can’t remember what year was that, like 2001?Hendrigan: That was 2001 yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah.
Hendrigan: Yep. The election happened and there was worry but, but then when did
30:00you realize that there was something afoot from more official, from more official sources?Linnea Cudmore: Well I wasn’t in the management so I don’t think I realized
it until it started coming out on the news-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: There was this in the public, and I can’t remember what the
Liberals were saying, why it started-Hendrigan: Oh, there was a core review.
Linnea Cudmore: Maybe that was it; there was something. But then I remember
listening to the radio, listening to CKNW and starting to really hear it. And hearing how the government were talking the numbers and they were saying this number and that number. And then they basically said that it wasn’t a good fit and whatever it was their announcement was. And I remember TechBC trying to 31:00fight back and saying, Well these numbers are wrong, and so then I remember numbers coming up from the TechBC side and them trying to come up--it was very political. I mean, I’m not that politically savvy--I’m not, not politically savvy--but I saw the game being played as a bystander. I had nothing to do with it--I was in IT; I wasn’t in management. So you saw this game starting to be played with the government saying numbers, then TechBC coming out with numbers and you know, this battle. And then, it became this battle and there was, a "War Room"--they called it at TechBC, and we would all gather and "We were all going to rally and going to fight this and we were going to prevail." It became a fight and the government won, obviously, but yeah. You saw the game being played; you saw the numbers and the skewing of numbers. Probably 32:00from both sides, but at the end of the day, they shut us down. But they didn’t really. You know what I mean?Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: They had this big announcement about the shutdown of TechBC
because of this and that but then: I don't know how many months later, I remember the Premier [Gordon Campbell] standing at the new location of SFU Surrey and announcing a new university, south of the Fraser, being SFU and I’m going, "Well no, this isn’t new-"Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: We were always here. You’re just renaming it and calling it
your own. That was my thought, that I had and cried, can I swear on this? [laughs] Probably not-Hendrigan: Sure, go ahead.
Linnea Cudmore: [laughs] It was complete bullshit.
33:00Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: [laughs] Even though I saw it being played. I’m the type of
person who--I was trying not to stress about it. I was married; I had gotten married and we bought a house so I was worried looking back on the whole situation. It was stressful. It was stressful on the staff; it was stressful on the faculty; it was stressful on the students. All for political reasons, and I thought it was completely unfair. And unnecessary and in the long run, yeah, maybe it’s better that it were SFU. I’m not saying that we’re not--I’m not saying either way, because you can’t look at the “what-ifs.” But the way they did it, and the way the government went about it, I just thought was wrong.Hendrigan: So the big announcement after SFU was coming--SFU was going to assume
34:00administrative control. You had a word for it earlier but do you have any, can you expand on when you heard it was SFU, how did that play out?Linnea Cudmore: Do you have in your notes, the time frame from when it was
announced that we were closing to the announcement of SFU? I cannot remember.Hendrigan: I’ve only got February 7th: there was an open cabinet meeting where
I believe that’s--I don’t actually remember that there was an announcement that it was closing and I thought that they-Linnea Cudmore: I, yeah, I don’t, I think you’re right, yeah, you’re
ringing a bell. I think the announcement was we were being given to SFU, I think that was. But it wasn’t announced widely. The Premier came later to do the announcement of this new university. So you’re right, I think there was never, 35:00"That’s it, you’re shutting down, you’re gone." Because they couldn’t--because they had students they had responsibilities for, and so it was like, What are you going to do. But I remember being at TechBC, I remember, in the IT department: I remember the days those pink slip carts went around and people were given their notice-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: And they did it in three rounds because again, they wanted to
save money on the packages. I can’t remember exactly what the rules are, but they had to do them 60 days between each round, so there was first round gone, second round gone and then the last of us standing. And I was in the third round, I, I was there right to the end. And yeah.Hendrigan: But you got hired on by SFU.
Linnea Cudmore: I did, I did. I was one of the lucky ones. I mean looking back
36:00now, we had our IT manager, and I thought--just the IT, from SFU, came down and took it out. They had conversations with people; they talked with people; they needed to know how things were, how things ran, how things went. So looking back, and how it went, within our IT department, two people were just appointed to SFU. And then the rest of us had to interview for open positions. But they did hire people from TechBC; it wasn’t like they went outside. I think-- again this is my opinion, because I wasn’t in the room--but I’m pretty darn sure we were handpicked, even though we went through interview processes. They already knew, through conversations with our old manager, who did what, who was 37:00good at what. And just the way I saw it happening, I--even though we did go through interview processes, I think it was already, kind of written on the wall-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: If I’d really screwed up my interview, maybe I wouldn’t
[laughs] have been hired. But there was a bit of bitterness on some of the people who weren’t hired. I know one guy said it was nepotism, the description of me being hired. I wasn’t related to anybody but--just the way the cuts went, right. I was the last round; I was still there. I got hired and that was pretty much how it worked. Everybody who was on that third pink slip, were the ones that were hired.Hendrigan: Oh, ok.
Linnea Cudmore: So the ones who went earlier didn’t get hired. So I think they
felt that that’s how they were let go and they didn’t even have a chance to 38:00get hired-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: It’s like: it was almost already decided, you know what I
mean. I don’t know if it was-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: Again, it’s just my opinion and my view of maybe how it
happened but yeah.Hendrigan: So, then you became an SFU employee, what was it like migrating the
TechBC systems over to SFU?Linnea Cudmore: Well, one, I know one thing that happened and this is in the
transition part, but when all the turmoil was going on with TechBC and I was involved with that, in the backups, I remember asking people, shouldn’t I be taking a full backup? Of our data, and I was told, "Nah, don’t bother, don’t worry about it, don’t" and I thought, But what if something happens. Don’t 39:00we want a snapshot of it" and I was told not to bother, just kind of keep doing our backups as we usually do-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: And backup: the way backups run, you keep things for a month;
you keep things for -- you keep the monthly ones so long; you keep the weekly ones so long, you keep the daily ones just daily. So I remember it being months later, after we were SFU. People started coming to me for the data. "Well where’s this?" "Oh, where’s that?" Well what happened is: people were upset, obviously with everything going on, especially maybe people who knew they weren’t going to get hired and were losing their job, losing their dream. But data was destroyed, purposely.Hendrigan: Oh.
Linnea Cudmore: And things were not found, and I could not recover them because
I was told not to make a full backup. And it wasn’t that I wasn’t told. I 40:00don’t know if they just didn’t care, or if they just didn’t think people would be malicious and delete things-Hendrigan: So there was sabotage.
Linnea Cudmore: Maybe the people who deleted them felt that was their
information. I can’t tell you; I can't say who exactly deleted things. I, those names have gone from my memory but I do remember trying to find information and the information just no longer existing.Hendrigan: Hmm. Wow.
Linnea Cudmore: Yeah, so I mean there was definitely anger and bitterness by
people to the point where they destroyed things- [laughs]Hendrigan: Wow.
Linnea Cudmore: At least data.
Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: You know data records, information, so I wish I’d made that
backup. [laughs]Hendrigan: Yeah.
41:00Linnea Cudmore: I wish I just followed my intuition and just done it and not
listened to my supervisors, because my supervisors were [laughs] gone and the management were no longer there eight months later, and I was.Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: But yeah.
Hendrigan: Wow.
Linnea Cudmore: Yep.
Hendrigan: So how did your work-life change after TechBC became SFU?
Linnea Cudmore: Well things were still--for me, things weren’t as stressful.
So things I did really notice once I got hired: there was a huge weight on my shoulders that I didn’t even known was there, going through this whole thing. So, I felt lighter for sure once I got hired full time by SFU-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: I mean, I did get a pay raise too, which helped. [laughs]
Hendrigan: [laughs]
Linnea Cudmore: I got paid better, you know. TechBC being a start-up, you just
knew you weren’t going to get paid as much. It’s kind of a given. But yeah, 42:00so I knew I had a job; I knew I was SFU. I knew things were ok. That was not the case for everybody-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: Faculty members. Because just the way programs run and approvals
go through the system, and they were all temporarily hired. I know some of them went through like three re-hire processes because each time things got delayed. So I remember, yeah I remember things still being really stressful for them and, and hearing about that and sympathizing with them. But at the same time, you were hired too so you wonder if they’re bitter, [laughs] towards you too. Because we also had some TechBC gatherings post all this stuff, and I remember being at a party and someone did make a comment to me about being hired and, 43:00"Oh, you’re one of those." And you could hear the resentment in their voice and they were still bitter about SFU. But it wasn’t SFU’s fault: this was all the Liberal government; this was not SFU. I never blamed SFU for any of this because what were they to do? Saying, "No, we don’t want another university?" No, it was going to be SFU or it was going to be UBC. It was going to be one of the two. So I was personally glad it was SFU and not UBC-Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: You know, just its--location wise, it’s just better; it just
made more sense. yeah, so work for me got easier just because I was less stressed-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: And I was doing-- my role changed-
44:00Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: Going from TechBC to SFU, I was more database administration
stuff. When I became SFU I became more assistant consultant; I took care of the labs more, I did more work with the faculty, and the students and the labs and the software. My role changed but it wasn’t nothing I didn’t know how to do or anything-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: It was just, yeah. Because I remember Ian Franks coming to me
beforehand and saying, "Well you know, just because there’s not a data administration role doesn’t mean you shouldn’t apply for [tongue click] something else" hint hint, wink wink right. So yeah, for me it was easier, was an easier transition than I think for many of the other people.Hendrigan: Right, right. So even though TechBC was taken over by SFU, did you
45:00see any positive impact that TechBC made on the larger institution?Linnea Cudmore: I think we still see that today being SFU Surrey. We have
maintained some of that flexibility, that innovation, and the ability to just get some things done-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: You know I often hear in the IT department that we’re going to
be the trial area for this or that, because we’re good at it-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: But partially because we’re still small as well; we’re not
the size of SFU and infrastructurally, we’re newer. Like you look at SFU Burnaby and they have problems because, just the age of their buildings; the age of the wires in the wall or age of the four-foot concrete wall. [laughs] It 46:00makes things harder to move and so just being newer--newer technology, more flexible in how we can do things, it’s really still kept that innovation centre idea here.Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: In my view, in my opinion.
Hendrigan: Mm-hmm. So reunion parties still happen then?
Linnea Cudmore: There’s been a few-
Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: Yep, yep. There has been, we had--I know we had one at Jean
Watters house, you know before he moved on to wherever he is; I’m not sure where he is. I know other people have kept in touch with him but yeah, we had one there. And we had one down at the, the Surrey pub here-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: What was that, last year? Time flies-
Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: So, it does. And you know, and there was the few, I think there
47:00was a student led or, but there was a TechBC Facebook area. There was a website where they tried to keep things going a bit and the spirit of TechBC and what we were trying to do but it’s petering-Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: Right, as time goes on, people move on-
Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: It’s just life.
Hendrigan: Mm-hmm. Do you have a favourite story or anecdote about your time at TechBC?
Linnea Cudmore: I’m not good at those type of things, no, not so much. But
[laughs] I mean we were definitely freer to do what we wanted I think. I know Geoff Brown, a colleague, and this is once we had moved to SFU. But he brought his dog in [laughs] for a while and had his dog there and I remember one morning, Ron Wakkary walked over and asked Jeff if his dog had been in lately, 48:00and, “I don’t think my dog was in your area.” And he goes, "Well, there’s a piece of poo-Hendrigan: [laughs]
Linnea Cudmore: Under my desk."
Hendrigan: [laughs]
Linnea Cudmore: So you know one thing about [laughs] being fresh and new: it was
nice because we didn’t have as many policies and red tape. We were freer to do what we wanted and that was the culture and the norm there. Now that we’re in a new building, we're not in BetaSpace; [laughs] there’s no dogs allowed.Hendrigan: No.
Linnea Cudmore: You will not find poo under your desk, but that was TechBC:
open; open concept; innovative; free: do what you wanted kind of thing.Hendrigan: Now what are you most proud of as a TechBC pioneer?
Linnea Cudmore: I mean, it was nice to try something new. I just--it would have
49:00been nice to see where it went. Unfortunately it wasn’t in the cards but it was, yeah. It would have been nice to see. Because it was all about technology and being in IT, I value technology, so it was just--I valued how they were trying to do things. How they were trying to bring technology to the forefront and having-- Most universities, you see as: you go to SFU, you don’t think technology. You think engineering; you think education; you think history. You think the old mindset of things, and same with UBC right: you go in there to become a doctor or whatever program it is, but you don’t think technology. I remember a friend going there for his engineering degree and, and them going and 50:00touring another high tech school and looking at the equipment in their display case of old equipment that was historically used-Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: And I remember him telling me, "Crap, that’s what we’re
currently using in our course."Hendrigan: [laughs]
Linnea Cudmore: [laughs] So this technology university had this: the relics of the-
Hendrigan: Oh boy.
Linnea Cudmore: Of the thing and, and here at UBC that’s what they were teaching-
Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: So that’s kind of what you think of as stuck in the past-
Hendrigan: Mm-hmm.
Linnea Cudmore: So here I value TechBC’s look to the future-
Hendrigan: It might have been at Waterloo or MIT or technology focused institution-
Linnea Cudmore: Technology focused, forward thinking, like what’s the future
going to hold. What’s the future going to look like instead of just what you think is you typical university. 51:00Hendrigan: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Do you have any final thoughts or parting words on
TechBC’s legacy?Linnea Cudmore: Well, one thing, again, growing up in Surrey, being in Surrey, I
am glad they chose Surrey. South of the Fraser university. If nothing else, their legacy is that this region of the Lower Mainland was thought about and that even being SFU, it’s a university now here and it’s a legacy going forward. Even though it was TechBC and now it’s SFU, it’s still here-Hendrigan: Yep.
Linnea Cudmore: We still exist, there’s students that are--there’s so many
students south of the Fraser. I was a student south of the Fraser. You just--to even think of driving to UBC to school was just mindboggling, because it was going to be so far, so long. So their legacy is at least that south of the 52:00Fraser was thought about.Hendrigan: Yeah.
Linnea Cudmore: Even, and you know, we are still trying to think of being,
trying to be called the Innovation Boulevard.Hendrigan: Right.
Linnea Cudmore: The coin turned at TechBC right? So technology is also at the
forefront of SFU Surrey and trying to go forward, so I think that’s their legacy. So being here in Surrey, and technology focused.Hendrigan: Yep, yep. Now is there anything you’d like to say about TechBC that
hasn’t come out yet in the past hour or so?Linnea Cudmore: I did have one story but now it’s, it’s gone from my mind,
should have written it down. I mean we had good people. I mean, not everybody was perfect; [laughs] not everybody was great. But you know, we were a good--we 53:00all worked well together; we all wanted to be there. It wasn’t the political mind games that you see now going on into the bigger university. Everybody wanted to be there. That’s what I really miss: the most is the people. Not the space--BetaSpace, no, I don’t miss that--but yeah, some of the people that are gone I really miss. Some of the people in Student Services: Faye, she was a wonderful lady. Mary-Anne, great person. Some of them are still here but a lot of them have moved on, so.Hendrigan: Linnea, I, I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to talk to me
about your experiences as a, a TechBC systems staff member, thank you very much.Linnea Cudmore: Thank you.
[End of transcript]
0:00 - Introduction / Getting hired at TechBC
Direct segment link:
2:46 - Duties in the IT Department at TechBC
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: And what department did you work in?
Segment Synopsis: Describes the types of activities that she was engaged with TechBC’s administrative and financial data: maintenance, storage, backup. Discusses her previous work experience and educational background which prepared her for this position at TechBC. She lived and went to school in Surrey all her life.
Keywords: Data; Technical Support
Subjects:
4:25 - Working in temporary spaces / North Surrey at the time
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: Which campus locations did you work in?
Segment Synopsis: Discusses TechBC’s temporary spaces, and how the office buildings felt normal for administrative purposes, but attending university based in a mall would have been unusual for students. Reflects on what it was like to work in Whalley in the early 2000s: Guildford was more upscale than Surrey Place. Having grown up in Surrey, she had a pre-existing level of comfort with her surroundings.
Keywords: Offices (Facilities); Poverty Areas; School Location; Shopping Malls; Urban Renewal
Subjects:
8:32 - TechBC’s systems department was agile
Direct segment link:
10:09 - TechBC ran its own servers / Effects of 2001 Nisqually earthquake
Direct segment link:
11:06 - Systems’ relationships with TechBC students, faculty, and staff
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: And can you comment on the relationships between the systems staff and faculty and administration?
Segment Synopsis: Comments on TechBC’s systems’ department’s relationships: suggests that the relationships with administration, students, staff, and faculty were good. Talks about how systems staff used to assist students with projects, either through physically moving computers around, or setting up banks of computers on which large 3D designs could be rendered. Reflects on the negative impact that the transition from TechBC to SFU had on students.
Keywords: Consolidated Schools; Multicampus Universities; Organizational Change; Student University Relationship; Work Environment
Subjects:
16:06 - The library
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: I have to ask just a couple librarian questions. What do you remember about the library? I think it was also known as The Portal.
Segment Synopsis: Describes the library, AKA “The Portal,” and how it was in a dark, undesirable basement. Initially sharing space with systems’ offices and a lunchroom, the library eventually expanded to take over the whole space and staff were moved upstairs into brighter areas.
Keywords: Library Facilities; Library Services
Subjects:
18:44 - TechBC culture
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: Can you describe the TechBC culture?
Segment Synopsis: TechBC culture was new, innovative, fun, and dynamic - sometimes to its own detriment. Talks about some of the key players in driving TechBC’s culture: Bernie, Jean, and Tim. Describes some of the characters that worked at the university, and what the relationships amongst TechBC staff were like. Speaks to the way working in temporary spaces impacted workplace culture. ,
Keywords: Experimental Universities; Interior Design; Open Plan Schools; School Culture; Student Personnel Services; University Presidents
Subjects:
24:46 - Employee status
Direct segment link:
24:59 - Staff parties and socializing
Direct segment link:
26:20 - Challenges of working at TechBC
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: Can you talk about some of the bigger challenges about working at TechBC?
Segment Synopsis: Describes the challenge of having a small IT team that needs to provide a wide range of services, and the need to get up to speed with responsibilities quickly. Technical knowledge was not always available in house. Also speaks to the struggle to be responsible about money, to spend sparingly but also invest in systems that will work in the long run.
Keywords: Technical Support, On the Job Training
Subjects:
29:11 - Rumours of closure
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: So what were the early signs that the university’s days as a stand-alone institution were numbered?
Segment Synopsis: Discusses how rumours of TechBC’s closure began to emerge during the 2001 election. Recalls hearing TechBC’s future being discussed on the radio, and how stressful that was. Talks about TechBC’s efforts to fight back, the “war room” that was struck for strategic sessions among administrators. Suggests that the Liberal’s rebranding of TechBC as a “new” university in Surrey was hypocritical.
Keywords: Elections, Political Affiliation, News Reporting, Expenditure Per Student, Institutional Survival, Consolidated Schools, Trauma
Subjects:
34:03 - Layoffs at TechBC
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: So the big announcement after SFU was coming... You had a word for it earlier but do you have any, can you expand on when you heard it was SFU, how did that play out?
Segment Synopsis: Reflects on the series of three layoff periods that occurred as SFU dismantled TechBC. Those left until the third round were retained by SFU, which resulted in some hard feelings between those who kept their jobs, and those who did not.
Keywords: Consolidated Schools; Job Layoff,
Subjects:
38:27 - Destruction of TechBC data
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: So, then you became an SFU employee, what was it like migrating the TechBC systems over to SFU?
Segment Synopsis: Suggests that the transition from TechBC to SFU Surrey was challenging. Recalls an instance where a TechBC staff member (or staff members) purposely erased data. She regrets not having completed a full backup before TechBC was closed.
Keywords: Data
Subjects:
41:22 - Work life changes at SFU
Direct segment link:
47:26 - Fond memories of TechBC
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: Do you have a favourite story or anecdote about your time at TechBC?
Segment Synopsis: Reflects on a few things that characterized TechBC’s open, progressive culture: staff were able to bring their dogs to work, new technology was embraced.
Keywords: Memory; Technology; Technology Education
Subjects:
51:05 - Final thoughts on TechBC’s legacy
Direct segment link:
Partial Transcript: Do you have any final thoughts or parting words on TechBC’s legacy?
Segment Synopsis: Discusses how beneficial it has been to have a university south of the Fraser River. Reflects on how everyone who worked at TechBC really wanted to be there, and how she misses her former colleagues
Keywords: Site Selection, School Location, Academic-Industrial collaboration, Access to Education, Commuting Students, Work Environment,
Subjects: